I don’t mind the darker elements just so long as those who say the Horde are bad guys realize there’s a price to pay for darker elements that the Horde has been paying for quite some time being cast as the evil faction.
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removing flying did more damage to the playerbase unity then anything else.
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I’m not a fan of the removal of flying and dorking around with pathfinder. It really skunked up the sense of accomplishment I had back in TBC doing the druid epic flight form quest. I felt like that was being tossed out the window once they started being so against flying.
This is arguably true too.
Wait, I’ve got it.
Genocide… On flying mounts.
I know Christie Golden is no Tolkien, but damn. I find it difficult to believe this infantile, narrative is what she wanted. I would really like to believe someone interfered with her work.
A hyperactive middle schooler with a serious Mt Dew addiction could have come up with a more subtle plot.
For the Alliance its just insulting. Painting the players as morons who can’t bear to be anything but pure goody two shoes.
For the Horde its approaching abusive. Forcing players into roles that would please only a few basement dwelling edgelords.
Blizzard should be ashamed of this mess.
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I’ve never actually read her work so excuse me for the second hand info but from the sounds of it she loves Anduin being a goody two shoes perfect angel faced crying boy. I don’t think she’d even write anything negative about him… headed towards Garry Stu territory but I guess thats the best way to counter Sylvanus.
I think you have a bunch of writers just writing for their favourite characters and then the rest is just an after thought, on both sides.
I am not evil, I am just waiting for my savior Yrel to come to this world and help me convert or destroy the unbelievers.
I am bringing the Light to the world, giving others the option to the accept the truth and eradicating those who don’t accept it.
The writers are trying to play on the edge of, “What is evil and what isn’t”.
Which is why they came around with the morally grey nonsense.
I think they really thought someone committing genocide and doing evil things we’ve raided other characters for would have been ignored because:
- The character is female.
- The majority play Horde.
Now Blizzard copped out tried to band-aid fix the Horde image of being evil by removing Sylvanas and pretending Horde were against her actions except they were with her the entire time following orders.
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You’re taking the opinions of people who don’t like her writing – or her personally – as fact. You’re also overlooking the fact everything she writes has to be signed off by Blizzard.
If there’s a library near you, pick up a copy of Before the Storm (you can even use InterLibrary Loan to get it) and read it for yourself.
I think the problem here is that it’s worth remembering that the Horde vs. Alliance conflict has never been about good vs. evil, but about ideals, and the ideas of what’s socially acceptable or not.
The Horde, including blood elves and nightborne despite appearances, is about those who have been socially rejected and turned away, or on the verge of extinction through things like abandonment. The Alliance, on the flip, has always been about your stereotypical fantasy archetype involving order and civilization.
For one faction to suddenly become evil does go against what they’ve stood for in large spades. That might be why people have a problem with it.
This is… wholly inaccurate. Like, completely wrong in a binary sense.
The original incarnation of the Horde vs. Alliance conflict was 100%, pure good vs. evil. Go back to WC2, and the Horde had 0 redeeming features and 0 appetite for redemption. They were wholly devoted to evil with the kind of unabashed gusto we would all be lucky to have for our passions.
All this, “oh, don’t blame the Horde! The DEVUL made them do it!” attempts at making them any sort of “noble savage” or “good” came in WC3 with a tidal wave of retcons and confusion and denial.
The Horde vs. Alliance conflict was founded on the good vs. evil dynamic. That’s how WarCraft began. That’s why the current state is such a ridiculous, maddening pileup of depictions, moralities, and “justifications”. Because you have people, both writers who indulge in it and fans who want it to justify such indulgence, constantly going back and making the big bad ugly lumpy icky oh-so-classically villainous Horde evil despite all the efforts that went into twisting them into what they’re… “supposed” to be now.
And it’s… not only inconsistent and glaring, but usually handled very, very, very poorly. WoD, (World of WarCraft: Nostalgia Spooning) was a trainwreck of an expansion, and only served to nullify years of redemptive work to the Horde as a whole. In Legion that was largely ignored, but BfA focuses on it all over again, and mostly, it seems, less out of actual narrative direction and more out of habit.
Characters who were strongly neutral randomly jump on Sylvanas’ Villainy Jamboree (and out of anything resembling their own senses), while the Alliance institutes a full on lobotomy protocol for all its upper echelon members just to railroad this idiot expansion into existence.
But, you know… Horde vs. Alliance! It’s gotta happen you guys! No matter how ridiculous or unjustifiable or just plain idiotic. This is WarCraft afterall!
Bah.
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I understand that. It’s not anymore though. I’m talking WoW lore, not Warcrafts 1-3. Like, yes, Warcrafts 1-3 was about good vs. evil involving Horde and Alliance. But the past 15 years of lore in WoW itself is not that.
Actually only WC 1& WC2 were the one about good v evil. WC3 was where the writing tried to change the stereotypes and had orcs as neutral or good and humans as evil. They even tried to play the pity card on the Forsaken so instead of being evil undead, it was pity me I didn’t ask for this.
I do somewhat disagree on the whole we are outcasts for the Horde. In WC3 and Vanilla, Horde were brotastic frat boy football types who waged war instead of football. They were proud, they never would have admitted to say they will kill us if we don’t band together. The races hung out because they were like minded and agreed on a lot - defense was just a welcome side product.
Yeah Thrall saved the Tauren from the centaur (which almost every aspect in game was wiped out in the Cataclysm revamp) but Thrall and Cairne liked each other and saw the world the same way. It wasn’t like Sylvanas coming to Cairne and saying save us despite being diametrically opposed on almost every level.
So you’re saying that sometimes… murder and genocide actually makes sense?
You’re my kind of orc, I tell you.
We call it “population control” now, HR went over this Goregroth.
Except “it’s not anymore” is only valid so long as the writers don’t forget about it, and/or decide to conveniently ignore it, handing the Horde a top hat, cape, fake mustache, and a script that just reads “mwahahahahah!” on every line. Which is the problem.
The writers are OPishly enthusiastic about using the Horde as a platform for gratuitous evil. And why not? They look the part and that’s what they originally were. Thrall who? … Oh, no body likes him! Remember Cataclysm? Let’s get back to where the ugly lumpy brutes that look evil obviously are - that’s more fun!
…
The point is, that “cut off point” between the WoW of old and WC3 is less of a hard, fast line, and more of a… floating boarder with very little security. Retcons flow back, and Garroshes flow forward. The original incarnation of the Horde may have been “justified” but it’s still historical, and moreover, it still has undue influence and impact on the Horde going forward, no matter how completely contrary it may be to what their current narrative is supposed to be.
Whatever that is.
This week I mean.
Because despite all its flaws this is an RPG … not just an MMO; and thus it is expected to have some semblance of a cohesive story. It failed on many levels in BfA, but honestly if I wanted simple mindless violence against a color coded team … I’d go play just about any FPS or MOBA.
At the end of the day, it is still the Setting, and many of the characters, of Warcraft that entice me to even bother with this game anymore. Its sure as hell not the gameplay … and absolutely is not the faction conflict. Though, I’ll admit, the Raids of BfA were mechanically fairly enjoyable.