Why does Innervate pull Ferals out Cat Form? We’re the only spec out of the 4 where Innervate is this punishing.
The fact this was not switched, along with Gaurdians, in 10.05 indicates this is a concious design philosophy that the Druid Dev has.
Please explain why
Please explain why
Please explain why.
Because cats are selfish. So to go out of their way to help people they have to make a big show of it.
It’s pretty awful. Battle Rez not being able to consume our instant cast and not kick us out of cat form is also pretty terrible imo.
I mean…… whatever. It’s not really an issue. We’re an energy class. We don’t attack every global. Worst case is you lose one or two white attacks while your energy regens as you cast. Swap back to cat and keep going.
This is not true – and regardless of this, it’s an abysmal feeling to burn so many GCDs to use. In high end content like high M+ or Raid or PvP you don’t have these spare GCDs when a vital kick pops up and now your in GCD bloat to try and get the kick and miss and wipe.
Kick is off GCD so this isn’t a valid concern. And, frankly, if you’re ever innervating when you expect your kick to be required that’s a skill issue.
I agree that not having in-form Innervate is irritating, but it’s not the end of the world.
I think it’s just less disruptive. It’d be a nice quality of life change and it’s not like being able to innervate someone while in cat form is gonna break the game.
It’s not off the GCD when you’re out of form. If you cast innervate and spam kick, you wont be able to go back into cat form and kick until that GCD is over. It does not work the same as how TF and Zerk does where those spells will pull you back into cat even when youre on GCD. So yes, this is 100% a valid issue that every feral at high level of play has to deal with. In a massive pull it’s not as easy as “let me figure out if my kick needs to be off the GCD in the next micro seconds” - this isn’t something any other spec in the game has to deal with so why should feral
Edit: A lot of folks have the mindset “It’s not that big of a deal so who cares”. It feels clunky to many people. Having to decide about having to spam a GCD bloat versus using your actual abilities never feels good. It isn’t going to make or break the game, sure, but why should we have to deal with such clumsy interactions that all of our other specs don’t have to deal with as a Druid? They fixed the TF issue of it being removed in bear form but that took YEARS for them to adjust.
100% isn’t breaking the game, but its very disruptive and causes very clunky gameplay. It appears that bliz conciously made the decision to keep innervate pulling ferals out in 10.05 as they adjusted bears but not cats.
Blizzard is very inconsistent with their design intent on these sorts of things:
Hibernate - can cast in form
Remove Corruption - can cast in form
Rebirth - cannot
Innervate - cannot
Cyclone - cannot
They are just all over the place and I believe the community does deserve to know their philosophy around why some abilities can be cast while others cannot. Remember, every time a spell - especially an instant cast - pulls you out of form you have GCDs to go through. One while going out of form and one while going back into form, literally no other classes in the game have this kind of interaction, but we’ve always understood because we’re druids. They aleviated this in the past with original design of forms being off the GCD. They’ve since moved away from that, but left this archaic design in place.
Claws of Shirvallah was an interesting concept for Ferals and really wouldn’t break the game at all if that was baseline – where we could cast all spells in cat form. If we can cast hibernate, why not? It really changes nothing other than having the specs be more fluid without GCD bloat.
But I’m going down a giant rabbit hole – they first need to address the philosophy as to WHY they think this is important. Class Fantasy? Hibernate and Remove Corruption can be cast, so clearly when its impacting gameplay to a high degree they forego Class Fantasty, so we are already out of this realm for reasons. I’m trying to understand WHY its this way so we can provide accurate feedback. Shrugging this off as who cares is a poor mindset to have. It’s disruptive and that should be enough. You CAN play around it, but do this crap with other specs and see how they react. Force literally any spec to encounter a GCD on their kick to use any ability and they’d riot – but its okay for feral because its only a few abilities.
Yes, yes it is. You should always know whether or not you need to kick on a pull before you do anything that would make you unable to kick. Further, there are zero scenarios in a key where you would be Innervating during a time when you would be kicking. You’re fabricating something to justify your anger.
Is it irritating? Yes. Are you using hilarious hyperbole? Also yes.
Frankly Rebirth is a WAY bigger fish to fry than Innervate.
porque no los dos?
There is nothing fabricated - happens in pvp where if you wanted to run innervate you’d risk it constantly. You are simply looking for an excuse to be simple minded and brush something off becuase of feelings versus facts.
I 100% agree Rebirth is also a problem and bigger than innervate, but a problem is a problem and this is a problem with blizzards design philosophy.
It’s strange youre choosing to be obnoxious by deflecting using fallacy of dismissing an argument based on your feelings.
No reason to be arguing over it - an issue is an issue. I’ll state it again, imagine telling priests using vampiric embrace will put your kick on a GCD. Telling a Rogue if they Blind their kick is on a GCD. I can go on. No one would go for it- whether its a a smaller CD or a bigger one, the issue still stands in all regards.
Edit: we are talking about the exact same issue btw – if you think Rebirth is a problem. It’s a fundamental design philosophy that bliz has with Feral that needs to be addressed. Strange to argue about it when we agree. One issue doesn’t detract from another.
I can definitely see that happening in PvP because it is completely unpredictable. However that does not apply to Raid or M+, which was part of your original reasoning. If we just want to say this is definitely a problem in PvP, that’s totally fine.
It’s a problem everywhere. Your argument for PvE is that “just plan for it” when there should be no planning. If we pull a pack and want to chain pull in M+ and I want to give innervate I shouldn’t have to plan out how/when to do it because my kick wont be off GCD for it. This, while minor, is an issue.
Again, go into any other class sub and tell them their utility ability puts their kick on GCD. If a rogue/hunter wanted to give tricks/misdirect to their tank on a chain pull but it put their entire kit on 2 full GCDs to do so, they’d never do it and there would be an outcry.
You’ve offered nothing in defense to why this interaction should exsist. All you’ve done is appeal to the stone in your argument.
Thats where youre wrong, kiddo!
lol spare me…
All this tells me is that youre using innervate wrong. You dont wait for a healer to go oom and call out for innervate. You innervate them before a heavy damage phase, so all their heals become free, preventing them from going oom in the first place. Furthermore, using it sooner in the fight means it up again at the end.
Thats not why im here though…
Pay attention.
Innervate doesn’t incur a gcd. Pressing it will instantly cancel cat form.
Tigers fury doesn’t incur a gcd. Pressing it will instantly shift you to cat form.
Guess what happens when you macro them together?
I’ll give you a hint…
Its not this.
It doesnt.
Stop talking.
What in the black magic, I must be a horrible feral druid.
Tical I made a macro for both of these together, how can I make it so it will place me back in cat form if Tiger’s fury is on cooldown? I’d like to be able to spam it without it removing my cat form from multi-pressing the bind, is that possible? Thanks~ 
This is my current and I think it’s working for now:
Tigervate-
#showtooltip Innervate
/cast Innervate
/cast Tiger’s Fury
/cast [nostance:2] Cat Form
I am not disputing you can play around it- so please- spare me your high horse attitude. All of what you said is 100% correct, you can cast innervate and snap back to cat off the GCD with TF or Incarn (I mentioned this above, but reading is actually hard I see). You broke out parts of what I’m saying just to point out that you can play around it, yes, you are correct. This has literally zero to do with the point and outside of very specific spell combos, everything I said remains true.
The whole point of this post is why…
Why should the spec function this way when literally no other spec does and it fundamentally does cause GCD bloat *** (unless you time things in specific orders, and not when you may need them in a pinch)
Thanks Kiddo - I can send you some hooked on phonics and we can continue the actual discussion later.
edit: Also, they changed remove corruption in BFA after ferals complained ad nauseam about how pulling us out of catform to dispell was terrible. I’m sure you were right there with the “get gud” attitude.
Using 2 abilities would cause 2 globals.
Using Innervate and popping TF incurs 0 globals.
Where’s the bloat? It’s not like you have to spend 4 globals on two abilities. That would be considered bloat.
Wanna try again?