I think we’re agreeing with each other here. I’m also saying that in a certain setting, the war and what comes with it is not evil. Unless they were killing just for the sake of killing. And then Blizz should also take that approach when presenting the hoard.
Instead you have the Horde’s own leaders condemning their own faction’s actions. And the actions of the leadership steadily becoming sketchier and sketchier
Pretty sure that’s an oxymoron.
Honestly, they should have kept Night Elves savagery and put them on the Horde then give Alliance high elves.
Absolutely not. Modern conventions that war is not a valid solution to national conflict is heavily misguided. War for the sake of war is evil, but war is not in and of itself evil. It all depends on the reason and the approach.
Again, if we look at the example of ancient Japan. The way of life of the samurai was very much founded in the ideals of honor and respect. Yet also very much rooted in war and conflict. It’s just a way of life. That doesn’t make the samurai crazy or evil.
Oh no, ofc not… It just makes them “mid-evil.” 
Or, in other words, “Old fashioned, or primitive.” And what is the most primitive form of problem solving? Violence. There is a reason we look back on the medieval period and shake our collective heads.
Or people in modern times just don’t really believe enough in anything to think it’s worth fighting and dying for.
I wouldn’t go so far as to call either side pure evil or good. All of wows races have bodies on their hands.
Theres the bodies each individual character has created as a result of their actions or inactions. Then theres each races general history. Orcs and undead have often been the races to start wars and just kill everything.
So between the two factions one is a darker gray then the other.
Maybe to reduce potential issues. Thrall when making a faction should have not used anything related to the orcish horde?
Maybe we should have been a council from the start. Using a different symbol. And called ourselves something like.
The coalition, the outcasts, the federation, the union, etc.
I can’t wait to make a cyborg gnome.
Only if they get to be druids. Because transformers.
Orcs killed cenarius. Orcs ravage the nelfs forests. They would never join the orcs. And belfs are only horde because they have little choice.
Don’t forget belfs almost left thanks to gary in mop.
Sorry but this is wrong. When WARCRAFT launched what you said was true. There was almost no story and there were 2 very generic “sides” in a 2 sided game.
When Warcraft 3 was written, the Horde were changed to be tribal groups of races sticking together to survive. None of the Above were evil. THese orcs didn’t drink demon blood. Tauren were never bloodthirsty. Darkspear were no longer cannibalistic.
This is how things were when WoW launched. The only change is Blizzard had to figure out where to stick the Night Elves and the Forsaken. Blizz made the NEs less violent so they could go Alliance and just kinda stuffed the Forsaken on the Horde despite no way the Tauren would be for it (I don’t care how they ended up writing the lore).
Even during Garrosh, the Horde was not evil. Not until Sylvanas. Sylvanas and BFA is the ONLY time I haven’t main’d Horde.
Well orcs did get to Azeroth by draining the life force from innocent women and children. Where is the honor in this?
we are getting closer to that. Barely…but closer.
AD Yrel does not take no for an answer. And she isn’t Anduin or even Varian.
Orcs don’t want to see the light? Well then be dead orcs. But they had her walled off in an alternate universe and there it ended.
We just need to get some our timeline/universe alliance leaders on this path.
Tyrande is too minor a character in the human run alliance story to make this change I fear. She will put in check or put down if she goes full bore psycho.
It be nice though. I come from a strong Warhammer (40K) background. Where humans are the “good” guys. But we can do “bad” things to be “good”.
Sylvanas is not evil she is morally grey
the angle they tried to push. Didn’t really do a good job though.
When you attack civilians you don’t get to be grey.
Lets talk movie hitmen. Leon the professional or even John Wick.
these would be morally grey.
they do bad things. to bad people. Not good people.
Could they not be sociopaths on a paycheck and do something better for the world? Yes. Since we only see them wipe out other criminals though…will the world miss a few criminals? Not really.
Leon the professional has basic rules for example. No women. No kids.
Now in the opening scene did he wipe out several people to let the one guy live after he has a chat with the employer on the phone? yes.
Kind of messed up he just needed to get the dude on the phone and had to kill a few people to do it.
That’s bad.
But they were paid for thugs by a crime lord so the world will not miss them. So not so bad.
Or, well, kind of grey.
Because Blizzard isn’t willing to put in any effort to portray the Alliance as morally wrong or as the enemy. Just like how they always have to write the Horde as the bad guys.
That and I also believe that there is a section of the Alliance player base that will throw a massive hissy fit and screech Horde bias if Blizz even remotely tries. Same can be said with the Horde if they aren’t written as hobo warmongers.
see this now with thrall even.
man, he is back? He’s the alliance loving orc.
Or…he is the orc who is just going we can keep kicking the crap out of each other for the next 100 years. Hell 1000…
Or we can aim higher here.
thrall aimed higher…and gets flack for it.
It’s true. Gnomes come in four flavors.
Lawful Good
Neutral Good
Stupid Evil
Insane Evil
The last 2 types are there entirely to be laughed at.
Not even gonna bother reading the post as the question is obvious enough to answer. The Horde have to be villains because the Horde was founded on blood sport and the senseless killing of innocents.
i don’t see a problem personally alliance was always made out to be the good guys in the grand scheme because humans, when you have a world with multiple races like… Mass effect for example, humanity is always depicted to be the good guys, not perfect by any means and they usually show that through the lore but in the end they are always good.
The horde in the early days of warcraft were shown to be more tribal/primitive but not bad by any means they were refugees. to make the game interesting there needs to be conflict, making the alliance the bad guys wouldn’t make sense for starters… remember this is a story blizzard is trying to tell, they can’t exactly have the alliance and horde holding hands and everything peaceful, that would
1 be really boring to play and build story around and 2 there wouldn’t be any progression plus it would make having factions redundant.
the hordes main race, the orcs are kind of a battle driven race and they did kinda come to azeroth uninvited and didn’t make nice from the start their future was set in stone already they were gonna be the “bad guys”
this whole thing is pretty straight forward there really shouldn’t be any complaints about it tbh