3-tanked:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gRw6XqZP9MHdJ24t#fight=15
Oh and their ilvl was almost 430.
pretty sure I’m a raider and I love m+
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Raiding is always has been part of the grand structure of the story telling. It’s huge and has many parts. Properly conveying the invasion of Argus for example would be shameful in dungeon format.
In order to tell a grand huge story you need the biggest format which will always be raids.
I’m not saying it has to be but other games that do it on their ways are surely shallower as a result.
Edit: let me also note that I haven’t seriously done raiding since wotlk and I often have reservations at the sheer amount of resources devoted to a game type I barely bother with. But… I think in terms of plot development raids are a superior format.
Just think of how disappointing the war campaign was. Shallow content (but good cinematics).
Lol dude m+ is way over rewarding right now. Easily best source of residum and easy gear from a failabe 10+.
I don’t want m+ to get nerfed though. Just seperate gear so you get your bis from your chosen form of content.
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Because if you could farm mythic caliber raid gear out of a 5 man instance with NO LOCK OUT TIMER, what would be the point in a having mythic raid content any raid content for that matter?
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Because people are always going to like to raid?
Who said that? But until raids are not as popular as they are, it won’t change. Matter of fact if it wasn’t for “forging”, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion because instances NEVER gave gear on par with raiding until that system was introduced.
I dabble in mythic but wouldnt class myself as a mythic raider, but i DO think raiding should have better gear then keys. Content that can be done once a week with 20 people should drop better gear then 5 man spammable content
Cause it doesn’t promote good gameplay. It promotes cheesing and powering through things. In raids I have to heal correctly and efficiently, in M+ I just spam healing surge.
^^ basically this, but also having 5 good players is a LOT different from having 25 GOOD players, its the same case as back when 10m and 25m had similar loot.
the 10m content is ALWAYS going to be easier because you have less cats to herd, thus it shouldn’t reward the exact same gear raiding in the element of getting 20-40 people together to sit still and not be retards for a couple of hours is worthy of rewards as such.
However.
Why do mythic plus players need top end raiding gear? it can’t be just so world quests get done quicker, you can use catchup gear for that… and if you are raiding… then get gear from both = profit??
see the problem really lies with the people who are like “omg the one thing i do needs to be the best way of gearing cause i like it best, and i wanna be best”
but in reality, you don’t need the best gear for much other than raiding or pvp and they’re other sources for that, the mythic plus gear needs to have boons that work only in mythic plus, same goes for pvp/raiding imo.
Along with a world quest set
For…pushing…Mythic…plus. Do the words ‘infinite scaling’ mean anything to you?
Why do you need the best gear for raiding? Oh, to defeat the freakin’ encounter, so exactly the same reason you need it for high M+ keys?
Faster/more efficient acquisition of gear, azerite armor, amazing trinkets, amazing weapons next tier, better end boss gear.
And people would honestly still clear mythic raid even if they went into it fully geared from the beginning. They’d just extend from the first kill.
They don’t…top raiders love it and even try for mdi.
Its the rest who complain, because they think a 20 to 30 person boss fight is harder, which is weird, because they have more of a margin to recover from a mistake than 5 man
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The irony is thicc 
This is literally the mythic raiders elitist attitude at its finest.
“Only MY content should reward top end gear, and anyone that doesn’t do what I do should not have it!”
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Because Raids are harder and require more people. Mythic plus you can spend top 3 hours in if its really going bad and still get in next patch a plus 10 a item 5 ilev more then heroic raids. For raids you can spend the entire night progressing on a single fight and still walk away with nothing.
If you want gear progression you should be forced into the harder content because that has been the way of this game up to and including WoD. Now you need to just speed run everything and almost guaranteed to get something.
I also wanted to add something about speed running. Take a look at the new AV. At first it did last 3-4 hours. now that people are not doing the mines or other objectives slowing the other team everyone just wants to get it over with and get into the next one as fast as possible. I don’t see how there is any fun in that you go entire AV’s with no pvp happen. The speed running is infecting everything.
Because the game, originally has always been like that. With raids always have been dropping better gear than dungeons. And it takes significantly less setup getting into a 5 man.
With raids though you spend 2-4 hours just finding 20 people who stay and 2-3 people leave every 10 minutes… THEN you have to wait and find people to replace those, in which time your 2/5/13 or whatever comp accidentally gets turned into by the rl into a 1/8/15 comp and then you have to entirely redo everything and then the lock leaves… Then you have to go find a replacement warlock and herd 20 people in. And OOPS someone doesn’t have flying. So what do you do? you wait for a warlock and eventually say “Screw this we need 20 people over here, idgaf take the 3/8 H 425 Warlock for literally just ports and healthstones” and then you summon everyone over.
Do 1-2 wipes in like 20 minutes on Mythic Sylvvara and hit it, get loot no one needs, do Mythic Behemoth, half the raid leaves because it drops all the useful loot and only half the people like radiance.
And then be 4x harder to pug since who wants to waste a raid lockout on a useless drop boss and only get 1/3rd the full loot. And then for Ashvane no one is gonna join a partially ran 3/8 M to MAYBE 10% of the time get into Ashvane in a pug and lose a lockout and all the other people at the start already left.
IMo with population timers just for sake of Evenness i don’t see why Blizzard just couldn’t enable cross faction grouping Day 1 and remove the raid instance group logout to be puggable. Guilds will still have the advantage of communication and scheduling, and you could still help on a boss, but just not get the loot. You shouldn’t be unable to guild raid even on a highly active ally server just because 80% of people are horde but 95% of the average horde and ally audience aren’t raiding anyways.