This is my feeling on the whole ordeal. I was shocked the first time I realized you can just farm M+. Completely destroyed the idea of raiding for gear.
1 Like
Itâs not gated. Stop using words you donât know the meaning of.
Mplus drops gear thatâs upgraded to 483.
Vault drops gear that can be upgraded to 489.
Thatâs a whopping 6 ilvls which means itâs not
As you said.
Youâre wrong. Stop trying to save face.
If you want to use the excuse that mplus drops at 470 youâre still wrong because everyone goes by the max upgrade level.
I donât think removing the lockout entirely is a good idea since raids drop a lot more loot. But reducing it to 3-4 days probably make sense to bring raiding into line with m+.
So much this. People make it seem like you can spam M+ and be in mythic track gear right away. Most of the actual drops are not used and are maxed at heroic.
1 Like
You wouldnât think it, but a lot of guilds would fold quicker than Superman on laundry day if raid lockouts were removed.
Imagine half your roster wants to push a single lockout and the other half wants to reset for gear as soon as you hit a wall. Now imagine being the GM who has to make the call. Regardless of the outcome, a big chunk of your team will be upset and growing dissatisfaction over time will lead to an inevitable rift.
Then you have people who want more raid days vs. people who donât or canât accommodate the extra time. The more âambitiousâ raiders would have even more reasons to jump ship for more progression-oriented guilds.
Granted, Iâm not much of a raider these days, but no thanks. The problems that come with limitless lockouts far, FAR outweigh the benefits.
Just because you canât doesnât mean itâs not possible.
483 is only 6 ilvls from the highest.
We can tell by the entire post you just made.
Thatâs not any different than now even if I disagree with changing the lockouts.
Raid leads make that call all the time.
Oh, Iâve done the Mythic/progression raiding thing previous expansions. Iâm no stranger to the tough calls raid leaders, officers, and GM have to make. All Iâm saying if I was still doing it in-game, I wouldnât want my team to deal with the added pressure from limitless lockouts.
I only got 1 drop last week I think? I ran at least 8 dungeons. The drop was also vendor trash.
I donât think gear drops as much as you think it does in M+ unless you wake up at 8am and just run M+ until 12am. I donât play WoW that much anymore, I play for like 2 hours a day.
Yikes, its factually correct that you get more items and crests per 5 people in raid than you do in mythic plus. Undeniably. The simple fact that the last bosses drop so many more items kinda tanks your take right at the start.
Assuming the same caliber of player in both types of content, aka equally efficient in clear times raid and m+:
2 hour clear, 15 person raid, 8 bosses, 3 items per boss plus extra last boss loot = 80 crests, 26-28 items divided by 3, 9 items per 5 players
2 hours m+ with form up time, maybe 4 runs = 8 items, 48 crests assuming completion
Its pretty straightforward.
I find that highly unlikely.
Sure this late in the patch you wonât find upgrades but thereâs a reason higher end guilds armor stack mplus groups and spam mythic plus.
Yet youâre actually wrong. What youâre not understanding is that mythic plus can be spammed while raid can be cleared once.
Thereâs a reason higher end guilds clear normal/heroic for tier and then spam mythic plus.
And yet still wrong. Youâre also assuming that each boss will drop stuff for casters melee and healers
Yet if you armor stack and run with say three cloth and two leather in one group and plate/mail in another group your chance at gear is increased.
Raiding only encounters a problem at a specific gear level you can no longer upgrade without mythic currency. That mythic currency can come from myth raidâs which are hard to assemble for or mythic plus 16 which are easy to do.
So if youâre like me and hate mythic plus and prefer raiding you are screwed at a specific item level you can never get past without moving into mythic plus to prep for mythic raiding.
Blizzard has screwed this system badly and made raiders dependent on mythic plus to get past overpowered bosses like Smolderon.
So if youâre like me who hates raiding and prefer M+ you are screwed at a point you can never get past without moving into raiding to get the BIS (trinkets, etc.) to further push M+.
Blizzard has screwed this system badly and made M+'ers dependent on raiding to get past hurdles like +27/+28.
See how that can work the other way? At least your path of having to progress is easier to navigate, whereas for hardcore M+ folks, they have to find a reliable group of 20 individuals to help them get a chance at getting a BIS item to help them push further in M+.
First, the gap between a heroic and mythic version of the item is a measly 6 item levels.
Second, Iâm looking at the top rated key on raider.io and there is pretty minimal amount of mythic raid items there.
A 489 pips instead of a 483.
A 489 Fryakk caster mace instead of a 483.
489 Suncaller instead of a 483.
Tank using a 489 (heroic raid) Augary.
Still seeing mirror, branch, genesar blood, prophetic stone scale, and Iridal from mythic+.
Anyone thinking 6 item levels on one of their trinkets is the difference between 27s and 32s is out of their mind.
I think the main point of my post went over your head entirely. It is easier for those who raid to have to run M+ for currency and/or upgrades to help them further progress in the raid (even if they do not particularly like M+), versus someone who would need to do the reverse. Sorry that I needed to spell it out.
Yet most specs have bis from both the raid and mplus.
People that do both are always going to have that advantage over those that donât.
1 Like
You already gear the fastest you have ever been able to gear in WoW. If raids didnât have loot weekly locked, guilds would just rep out the loot pinata bosses over and over and gear grind would be done 1-2 weeks except for niche bis trinkets and such and cause the season to stagnant much quicker than usual.
Maybe if you had to pick which content your lockout was used on. Like if you had open raid lockouts, then you can only do 1 of each m+ for loot this week. But having both open free farm just kills the season way too fast.
Gearing is already too fast imo and people are burning out on prog way faster because the sense of power progression is gone much sooner than normal.
I agree that is true because mythic+ is kind of a joke in difficulty compared to the mythic raid.
Although I donât see someone who wants to do keys having to pug heroic raid as too much of a difference from someone wanting to raid and needing to pug keys.
Depends on what were considering . Since M+ is infinitely scaling at some point it HAS to become more difficult because there is literally no ceiling to the difficulty.
If were talking about the cap for gear (+20) I agree. ESPECIALLY THIS SEASON. Idk what happened to dungeon balance but we were doing +20âs week one with no gear or no new tier set this season⌠felt like absolute memes. I literally didnât know what 90% of the packs did but it just didnât matter.
1 Like