And said subservience does not necessarily mean one of true political/military nature.
Pretty sure the brits called Elizabeth their/my queen all the time. That does not mean she has some sort of true authoritative power over them.
She is still considered their leader and sovereign. Whether symbolic or real she is still their queen, empress and overlord.
Andiun is the blue warchief. And now we can finally stop derailing this thread now that you admitted that Andiun is the supreme overlord and emperor of the Alliance. All hail his majesty.
And this is what the high king is. It is a Symbolic/figurehead position.
Anduin is not a “blue warchief” because the main different is the warchief position was not simply symbolic. It was an actual position with the power to compel members states to act even if they did not want to!
But he isn’t. He is neither overlord or emperor and his high king position is a figurehead position with at best the ability to focus armies/not control.
Lastly, I think this belongs to you with regards to this whole “High king=warchief” debate:
looks above me
22 hidden replies?
do I dare check anyway?
…naw
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It’s just two people going Nu uh, you’re wrong back and fourth. Didn’t miss anything interesting 
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Orcs.
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The last time I checked into this thread was March 31st. If one goes back to the posts on that day going forward… I thought the drama was over. I guess it only just began.
Looks like I missed a lot of vulgar mud slinging. The bad part about being late to this mess is that the worst posts have been scrubbed by Mods.
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Drama…
Drama never ends.
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Its not Drama, Zerde is adamant that Andiun is not the blue warchief even though Alliance leaders defer to him as such.
So for 20 replies I am trying to teach him what it means when you call someone “my king”
It hasnt been very successful
If what said was true or had any merit to it, then Tyrande and Greymane wouldn’t have been allowed to take their armies to darkshore during BfA. Anduin simply would have ordered them to help retake Stromgarde
We really only have one instance of a Wrynn overstepping their boundaries as King and that was Varian when he installed the Council of Three Hammers in Ironforge after the little civil war going on there.
And most alliance fans were none too happy when that happened
They might call him “My King” or “High King” or whatever, but fancy titles are still just fancy titles.
It’s pretty clear High King does not equal Warchief. None of the Alliance members are under any obligation to remain tied to the Alliance under oath or threat of violence. I think Tyrande made that clear when she flat told Anduin “No” in 8.1.
This is not the case with Warchief and the members of the Horde. Baine was putting all the tauren at risk when he defied Sylvanas.
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You’re both correct.
In the story, Anduin holds no authority over Tyrande, CoTH, Velen, Genn, ETC.
But, this is Blizzard. And their idea of Head Leader is the only character that matters. The Horde’s council is never present, but Baine is everywhere, always. You’re sent to meet the council, but you only meet Baine and occasionally Mayla.
It will be this way with the Desolate Council when the Forsaken are rarely charged to meet with them, except you might also see Lilian accompanying the Pale Lady and Her Champion.
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A council in name only because Blizzard’s kind of lazy and won’t make an actual in game scenario where we can see the entire council in one sitting discussing some important issue.
/throwsRocksAtTheBlues 
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To be fair, I think watching the council discussing issues would be about as interesting as watching paint dry.
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Didn’t people praise roux’s book for being exactly this, tho?
I didn’t.
/10char
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I praised Roux’s book for many things- but the depiction of the Horde council was one part I disliked. I am sure l posted about that specifically. And I do not think it was her fault, so much as the state of the Horde Council itself in the narrative.
I disliked how Thrall was going to be set up as right and then someone was going to be set up as wrong, with the council falling in line in the end. It was a predictable short hand to move the plot. In this case, Gazlowe was set up as against Thrall’s idea in a way that seems like any one could have been the opposition.
A council can be interesting when there are competing interests or down right intrigue - but the current council is pretty much all goody two shoes. It is like The X - Men… if everyone had the personality of Cyclops.
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Thankfully, if BFA/Shadowlands/Dragonflight have proven anything, it’s that Sylvanas stans aren’t the target demographic in regards to Horde content.
They could make it exciting. They’ve done Horde leaders discussing important issues before and it was a blast. I think back to the Horde’s meeting to decide if they’re going to war with the Scourge turning into a big duel between Thrall and Garrosh and then a Scourge attack on Orgrimmar. Fun times.
Nothing’s saying a Council meeting can’t be just as nuts.
But, if they want to keep things in a tight budget and just have Council Member X, Y, or Z say “The council has that decided that the Horde will A, B, and C”, then they should at least get other faces besides just Baine to give the news.
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Even people who disliked Sylvanas are not fans of the council and how it is playing out. I would imagine the more die hard Horde base would prefer a Warchief.
As it stands now, the council is pretty much : Thrall has all the bright ideas, while someone gets picked to be wrong just for the sake of tension - before they all do what Thrall wanted, anyway.
Maybe if they had certain positions that would help separate them - like Calia would represent Naval interests with Derek and the Forsaken fleet. Gazlowe was the treasurer. Baine was the official Ambassador to the Alliance. Roles that would differentiate their positions.
Or better yet, if the council had secondary representatives instead of the actual Faction leaders. Maybe Derek could be the person in charge of the Horde’s maritime efforts as the Forsaken’s representative on the council, and Boss Mida would be the Treasurer as the Goblins representative. Personally, I think the council diminishes the racial leaders. They should send representatives.
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