HMM SO INTERESTING I WONDER WHERE THAT TOO CAME FROM
Which is why my overall hope for this is that the writers simply see this as an opportunity to learn about the matter. Although not just for this. I think it’s important they put some research into how they write non-Human races tbh.
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Ah, okay, didn’t know that!
Why not? Especially if it’s meant to counteract sweat? (Also, Old Spice makes way more products than just deodorant.)
In fairness. Unless there was a change to the quest dialogue, (which is possible cause I know that quest went through multiple revisions to make it more palatable for Alliance players), the final version of it was describing the smell of the entire camp. Not Vol’jin.
Which not great, but I doubt a makeshift war camp was going to smell like roses lol.
EDIT: Ho ho, actually I’m wrong. There was a second part that begins with Vol’jin laughing in your face and “the stench of his hot breath reeking in your nostrils.” Classy.
EDIT 2: Because I can’t spell. Thanks Pellex.
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They went to the trouble of adding flies buzzing around him.
(Also, not to be “that person,” but the word you’re looking for is palatable.)
ETA: Yeah, stench of his breath, too.
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On the bright side, finally an example of a WILD characterization in a book/quest tie-in of a book without Golden being implicated
To Wrathion here and the problem for those who aren’t fully getting it, its the problem with innocuous or subtle hints of racial stereotypes/discrimination, if not just plain racism, particularly in relation to each other and how they are portrayed in game.
This one instance, being seeing almost in isolation, can have even fairly aware people go ‘huh, thats weird’ and really think nothing of it, or ‘its just smell, whats the deal?’ When we take WoW’s track record as a whole (their terrible handling of native culture in wow and the genocide of tribes, troll ‘primitiveness,’ a lot of not great goblin things) then you start going ‘Ahh, maybe I see something here.’
You take WoW’s track record, and now add this little midwestern shrew, and a generally Arab coded individual in Wrathion, and have some background in cultural or racial discrimination, then you start to see the issues. Its compounding.
A constant insult among Arabic families, and a lot of non-white cultures who never really conformed to U.S white standards, is that they smell. Thats one part. The ‘sweaty/smelly/gross Arab’ was all over the US post 9/11. Saw that first hand every day growing up - generally because of wearing hijab or other cultural clothing, even if they were just ‘different and weird’ it wasnst isolated to wasps, but really everyone - that ran deep even to 1st gen Polish (shocker, I know…), the Latino community, and even the Asian American community. To the point where it would become an over correction by the victims of this by dousing themselves in Axe, Old Spice, Dove, colones, or your choice of thing here just adding on to the problem.
The other part is the ‘exotic’ oils and spices. To bland Midwestern sensibilities, overwhelmingly so. The people smell, their food smells, everything around them smells, its hostile to the sense and it was/is weird for these salt and black pepper only folks to comprehend. Labeling something ‘exotic’ anyway conjurers orientalist stereotypes and framing that, simply, isnt great. Theres been a general push to refrain from using exotic or exoticism to describe a lot of things as its, generally, othering and really just conjurers this idea of like a 19th century sneering imperial British anthropologist. Do we really want to replicate that?
Thats mostly the sweat and smell thing to my understanding of it all. So is it a world ending thing or pointedly or hugely offensive? Again, on a single use probably not. But when looked at a wider level especially given…
the pattern is not great and should be addressed at some level.
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If we’ve honestly reached the point where a joke about a dragon’s BO is revealing that surely Blizzard is all racist this whole time (/s), then I honestly think they should just do what Final Fantasy XIV does with it’s playable races and characters.
Make the races 100% irrelevant and nothing more than RP background noise.
Cop out? Oh 100%. But to be honest I don’t see any way to fix anything, past present of future with the way WoW’s races work at a conceptual level.
To me, using cultural references is fine. Like look at what character I’m posting on lmao.
But I think it’s important to highlight the strengths and to also focus on the fantasy aspect of it rather than making certain stereotypes a running gag. I also think it’s important to give these characters a range. E.g. Pandas predominantly being Chefs or Monks. Create some new concepts. It’s fantasy after all.
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Or you know… just not use racial stereotypes. Smell is perfectly fine.
A gnome or goblin coming out of a shop or factory reeking of motor oil and soot, 100% perfect sense.
A human or orc smelling… not great… after a day of ranching or pig farming? 100%, perfect sense.
Oversized shews who primarily use their sense of smell as a way to navigate and learn the world to describe who they meet? Perfectly plausible. Adding on that racial/cultural connotation and connection even if just subconsciously, now not great.
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Just gonna repeat myself
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I was more talking about in general, not just this specific situation. Because again, this whole pivot of the conversation is about Wrathion’s BO being a subtle reference to WoW just being awful.
In general, I think the way Blizzard designed their races are just flawed on a fundamental level, and not much can be done to help them imo.
There’s a fine threaded needle they have to walk when doing anything with the races because one false move, “You are being racist against < Insert Ethnic Group Here >”. I wouldn’t want to branch out too far either if the end result would get me cancelled super hard on Twitter. Not caring was fine when they were putting WoW together because it was the late 90s/early 2000s, crap was wild back then. But now…them fundamental problems are…well problems.
It’s not an arcane science
“Hmm what is this character based on IRL? Is what I’m writing using IRL tropes and stereotypes of that IRL basis in a derogatory capacity?”
It’s not just ethnoracial tropes, it’s misogynistic tropes too, and queer tropes (eg that one Evil Gay Void Dragon from BoT)
They changed his voice from being Very Flamboyant to Not That later
Thats the thing though, Blizzard as shown they can add depth and correct their flawed developments. They’re not going to be perfect overnight but I do think, as we’ve seen in DF at least, a substantial shift to try and correct some of these things.
Some things they knocked out of the park - consulting Inuit people for the Tuskarr as they’ve said, giving the DF Centaur, at least, culture and life while also showcasing disability does not mean unable to, a lot more queer characters, the entire Orc heritage quest, even Baine’s quest shows an attempt at better depiction of Tauren.
Some things have flopped. This case with Wrathion is one of them. The human heritage questline, not great. Blizzard can do it, they are doing it, but they need to be reminded when they don’t land it or mess up too.
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Swap what I said with any other thing that bothers anyone in this game.
Blizzard built Warcraft on fundamentally bad foundations that aged like fine milk.
No amount of study groups and hiring the right people is going to fix this unless you tear the whole thing down and start over.
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Dont threaten me with a good time
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Sweet talking won’t get you nowhere with me!!!
I mean I am very much pro Press The Button, ie the retcon/reset Zereth button each one has
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That then depends on what people wants afterwards.
Personally I’d prefer they go the Final Fantasy XIV route where the races mean very little and cultural distinction comes from the city states and whatever Hat they wear.
Not perfect, but would make it far far harder to be problematic unless you are doing so un purpose.
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I don’t think saying a man (or male character) smells of spices suggests any particular race, culture, or ethnicity. Especially when you add the bit about “expensive oils,” making it clear that it’s a perfume and not just the smell of having been in the kitchen. Spice is a popular scent for men’s personal hygiene products all around the world.
ETA:
It doesn’t say exotic. It says expensive, and only about the oil.
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I don’t know if that means what I want is inherently problematic for a fantasy game, but I’d be disappointed with an FF14-style city states depiction of the factions because that (even if it’s now only somewhat) divide between monster races and more normalish fantasy ones was a compelling aspect of the horde for me, and that sounds incompatible with such a revamp.
I remember being really bummed out about it because even if it’s played as a joke, FF14 does have something a little like it with its so-called beast tribes and how the kobolds, amalj’aa, sahagin, etc. form a “Beastman Alliance”. But you can’t play as that group sooo it felt like an accidental tease.
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