Problem with DHK and city raiding is any form of AOE and cleave will hit a quest giver, that’s a DHK for the entire raid if say a mage uses cone of cold when pushing the gates of Stormwind from a huge defense squad of Alliance players, and that messes up the entire horde raid,
Massive world PVP events have a LOT of AOE thrown around. Also understand that say Jade who’s lvl 10 hits a level 5 quest giver who’s green to him he won’t get a DHK but Plufodo, who’s 26 will. It is a broken system, and all it did was prevent city raiding from happening.
KILLING CAPITAL LEADERS REWARD A HUGE AMOUNT OF HONOR,
DHK where in Vanilla as they weren’t same with Ranking in general.
The problem with this is, even if your entire raid is organized one AOE is a huge risk, you’re going to AOE. You also can’t control 120 + players on your own faction, 40 vs 40 is for AV 120 Vs ??? is More for Capital raids,
Personally i would leave them in if Civilian NPCS didn’t aggro on AOE, because AOE is a huge part of massive pvp fights. and it really hurts one side if one can, and the other can not.
I gotta be honest, the OP only made me feel better about being able to cause trouble in the world to drum up some WPVP while at the same time trying to get some PVP ranks. I don’t mind waiting a week.
Mate, you got me. It is a guessing game most of the time when it comes to figuring out what Blizz is going to do. All I can do is go off of what’s happened more times than not in the past and try to put together a puzzle of thoughts and opinions I’ve come up with in a somewhat cohesive manner.
Maybe they’ll make sense. Maybe not. All I can do is unzip myself and tinkle into the wind, hoping I’ll it land into the water and not onto someone’s head.
Don’t know, mate. Don’t know.
I’ve just never been one to show my distaste for something for the most part. I always seem to just like watching where the chips fall and see what happens.
The devs are probably hoping dhk’s keep pvp away from quest hubs. In my experience, it didn’t. But we’ll find out if it’s in. Maybe if dhk’s fail the devs can remove them.
after DHK’s were implemented I could suddenly quest in cross roads again. Before that all the quest givers were dead all the time. So whatever “evidence” you might have posted (no I didn’t read it) DHK’s worked on my server.
It made no difference actually, after DHK were introduced they were killed at the same frequency and you could argue at an even higher rate specifically because they added a stat in your honor page to track it.
Quite a few people enjoyed killing civillian’s just to raise that number.
To add, the vast majority of players in vanilla did not know or understand what DHK’s even did, the only people that really were aware were the people actively ranking hardcore usually.
You’re only going to leave opportunities to grief same faction players as well as in the state of todays gaming encourage people to pad their dishonourable kills to brag or simply just to grief the other faction without care because they aren’t going to rank which keep in mind will not be in at the start of the game.
I think that it happened less frequently, but it still happened. On Silver Hand (RP) it happened every weekend. But it could have been an rp event for all I know.
The town camping poop lords didn’t give a single damn about their pvp rank and camped towns regardless
Anyone who did care about rank just advoided wpvp like the plague, out of fear of inadvertently getting a DHK because they where massively more punitive the higher your rank was.
One particular guildie of mine lost two entire weeks on his 13-14 grind because ONE noob pulled a civilian between AB queus while in arathi.
The DHK system is the single largest embarrassment of the vanilla era, and did absolutely nothing good for the game.
There was at least one Horde and one Alliance group on Silver Hand who intentionally went out with RP in mind, to wreak havoc on the enemy, with no care for Ranking and just doing it because it was “their character”.
If you think that their decision to re-implement DHKs will combat that, I have news for you. They simply painted a huge “kill me” sign on them by those who could give a gnome’s rump about rank. This decision will have biblical consequences on your precious quest NPCs.
The unfortunate part of that is blizzard turning a blind eye to a decade of players asking for something, then making a decision contrary to that decade, and then players having to lobby once again just to get the slightest compromise IF even that. All of these decisions stink of people making them without a clue what was actually memorable and special about vanilla.
Loot trading wasn’t in vanilla, vanilla wasn’t always 1.12 balance/class changes, and phasing has yet to be expanded on since first mentioned.
So this clearly isn’t going to be 100% vanilla no matter what you want, there’s chances to improve upon things that actually need it.
And also, we’re not talking about adding things - DHK’s just don’t have to be enabled or can be tweaked like mentioned by several people in this thread by making them only apply to the killer regardless of raid or group.
There have already been multiple tweaks and changes and there will probably be more.
And all of those things are things that Blizzard decided were necessary changes for:
Loot Trading - Reducing the Help Desk overhead and making Classic cost-viable.
1.12 Balance/Class Changes - They don’t have a complete copy of earlier versions of the game, so to ensure a whole and unadulterated (i.e. unlike a Private Server) version of data, they chose to go with 1.12.
Phasing - Won’t be in Vanilla.
Sharding - They have said sharding may be used in the starter zones to alleviate the tourist bulge so that the company doesn’t have to open up tons of servers, or have angry players unable to get into the game.
So all of those changes pass the sniff test, and aren’t QoL changes for people who don’t like an authentic experience.
So they went through and said they were going to do exactly what they said they were gonna do.
They gave you the game and said they would make accommodations for modern infrastructure when it doesn’t affect the game.
The reason loot trading does not affect the game, is cause you could always move items in vanilla with a GM ticket, it just took some time. They have since created a system that does it automatically and gets the exact same behavior but better. It also significantly reduces the number of tickets so other problems can be answered quicker.
Then a bunch of people kept whining and complaining on these forums about abuses that are not introduced by this system, and are STILL IN EFFECT with the old system exist. After all this complaining for reasons that are no different then the system they wanted, Blizz caved and made a change.
The fact that Blizz made a proper design choice that was the correct decision from a fact based stance, and decided to change the game to capitulate to a very small and vocal minority of players, really should be much more of a scare than anything about loot trading.
Unfortunately no one seems to realize that changing the loot trading system for no reason other than a small vocal group complaining about systems they do not understand is a VERY DANGEROUS precedent to set…
You’re advocating for a modification to the game for the purposes of your own enjoyment, not because of a technical or fundamental issue with the viability of Classic.
Having DHKs will give an authentic Vanilla experience. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t justify removing them. Some people could argue removing PVP all together because they don’t like it. Likes and dislikes don’t get a voice. Only fundamental issues.