Why did the devs ruin Alterac Valley from day 1?

One of the aspects of Classic was people looking forward to “classic AV”, huge PvP battles between factions that lasted for days. Everyone was so excited about it. Everyone was looking to experience it, myself included.

But they killed off that hype by releasing 1.12 version. People just rush towers or boss. Nobody PvP’s anymore. Everyone either AFKs/bot farming honor or does the rush tactic.

I’m sorry but is Blizzard blind? People were begging them to change AV. Hype was real, and Blizzard devs thought they knew better, and now AV is just a mess.

What a shame.


This would never have happened even if they launched with an earlier version of AV. The very first AV matches were 10 minutes long. Buffing NPC’s by 30% or whatever and adding some easily avoidable mines would have done nothing.

I do agree that having a more complete version of AV would have made it more enjoyable but we wouldn’t have day long battles.


It could have never happened anyway if that’s any consolation. People have had 15 years to study the map. The issues that are obvious now weren’t apparent back then. I honestly don’t even think they realized how heavily favored the southern team is on this map. The fact that a midfield graveyard wins the game for the horde wasn’t readily apparent right off the bat.

The first AV matches lasted hours to days. Not sure where you’re getting this info.

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It was rather strange that blue posts directly asked the community which versions of things like layering, ubrs and av people wanted but completely ignored the feedback.


I believe he’s referring to classic’s release of AV.
I played it day one of classic, my 1st game went just over 8 mins. And I didn’t win a single game before reaching exalted.

A big problem with AV for alliance is that they often dont use the advantages the map has given them. I have yet to see a meaningful defense at the bridge. That was the alliance bread and butter in vanilla and stalling horde there would allow a team of 10 to take objectives in the south.

If you have a team successfully killing Horde at the bridge, the 40 Horde are respawning and walking through the one narrow chokepoint that leads south. This strategy obviously doesn’t work.

Probably, but it was very badly-worded.

Yes, this version of AV was released in Classic and the first few days everyone rushed, resulting in games 10 minutes or less. That ended after a few days and went to games on the magnitude of a half-hour.

That’s why people were saying it was a bad version to release. Other versions of AV were much more involved battles and had more evenly-split win rates.

Part of it is they supposedly didn’t have any of the source code from pre-1.12.

…even though, a quick Google-ing did turn up the Patch 1.6 client. With a bit of tinkering I was (I think) able to copy out all the AV maps, vmaps, zone map, and things…would just need the server side snippets for spawns.

But all that takes time. Classic was a quick cash grab to boost the Quarterlies.

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Regardless of what version of AV Blizzard decided to give classic, it’s the playerbase that is different and is what is causing the difference in game experience more than anything. I mean cross server queues don’t help either, AFKing in games filled with people on your own server was a big no no in vanilla.

how do you think this version of av would have turned out without crossrealm battlegrounds?

i didnt play through vanilla. the stories i heard kinda set me up for disappointment coming into classic when i read up on the features this version has, and what made it different to previous incarnations of it.

Because they are lazy.


Ah, that explains not choosing an earlier Vanilla BG. But it doesn’t explain not choosing a later Vanilla BG.

Re-engineering old code from maps takes many man-months of work, requires months of calendar time, introduces new code (with new bugs in it), and still ends up “not quite the same”.

But I agree that Classic was a “limited project”, so any suggestion for a better AV was probably denied because of the limits.

That never happened. NO dev (or game designer) at Blizzard made the decision to “ruin” AV. So there is no “why”.

But OP’s opinion that “PvP is important enough that Classic should have used a better AV” is reasonable.

AV seems ok if you’re just farming rep!

Yet they did it for retail.

That’s a bollocks excuse.

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1 or 2 hour bg I can stomach but god am I glad that don’t last a day or more

Yes they did do it for retail, and guess what, turns out nothing about an earlier AV actually prevents zerging it.

No, they had the source code. What they didn’t have was some of the data from before 1.12, notably some of the tuning data. That was separate from the code and without it you can’t accurately replicate some of the earlier patches.