It didn’t, obviously. No one played WoW until 10.0.5.
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You can upgrade gear thats better than 2s in world content, and really im not here to carry people for gear
the system cannibalizes the lower key experience for the sake of grinding ilvl.
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I don’t understand how a system with literally 20 discreet difficulty settings with rewards only is designed for the extreme ends of the bell curve.
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Real market trading is already banned. Unless you want Blizzard to start seeding spy bots in everyone’s Discord channels, I’m not sure how you want them to enforce this. Unless someone is dumb enough to communicate their paypal information through the WoW chat client, how is Blizzard supposed to identify which runs are for real money and which are for simple kindness?
I actually wouldn’t. Similar to my philosophy that players should be able to group with whomever they wish, I think that players should also be allowed to engage in whatever in-game trades they wish. If two people agree to exchange whatever amount of in-game money and then an hour later the same two players agree to run a +20 together, I don’t see anything wrong here.
They pretend to subscribe to the ideology that if you aren’t first you’re last, lol.
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And with our current system, you don’t need to carry them. They can grind their way to a high rating the “correct way,” get carried by their friends, or buy a carry. Then they can grind out low keys, all while not getting carried by YOU.
With the proposed new system, you’ll be having to carry a lot more players if you pug. At least you will until one of you quits trying.
How many overhauls M+ gearing have their been? To raid? To PvP? At this point we are on track to re-live WoD. And why? It’s not for the average players. It’s for pvp lobby players. Raid loggers. M+ pushers.
The amount of times that try hards get sweaty because a casual player gets a piece or two of nice gear is baffling. Considering this was designed as the easy mmo.
How is that, your only be doing keys for the lvl of the gear you need to upgrade, so if i need my gear from 10s thats all ill be doing is 10+
Actual citation needed. This expansion has had extremely high retention - it has worse launch numbers but those who started playing are more likely to have continued than most prior expansions, according to Blizzard reported MAU as well as M+ engagement.
Indeed. I would like to see this guy try to walk through the sequence of events of why it will be worse if players of your skill level are playing with you and not farming 2s.
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How is that? Because the low-mid skill players want the best gear just like the high skill players do. But with the new system, we’ve taken away their option to grind out most of their M+ time in low keys. So they’ll be queing up with you for those 10+'s…because they have no other option, except of course giving up/quitting. That’s not good for the game. People are only going to get better at the game if they actually WANT to and put in the effort.
Like yeah it’d be great if people would be happy with whatever they get, but we all know that they aren’t going to be happy with having low ilvl gear. Some low/med skill players want to try to compensate for their performance by overgearing content. /shrug.
So how again im gonna carry someone in a 10+ without proper io and ilvl ?
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Worng they get more valor since valor is uncapped the new system anyone with mythic gear will not benefit from running an alt through +5 since the crest they get won’t be used to upgrade their +20 gear making the run a waste of time.
If you list a M19 currently, you aren’t getting the full pool of players who need your key. A lot of those players are slumming 2s degening valor. What you will get is almost no applications or a smaller and weaker pool of players, because high IO players who want to valor farm aren’t playing your 19.
Right now, climbing from 16s to 19s to 20s is beyond awful. I typically have to kick-start my friends IO and get them in my 20/21s to get them enough IO to break through, because not enough people who should be playing 19s simply aren’t.
You can write wall after wall after wall, but the reality is the game is better when people play the keys that are at their skill level. The game is healthier overall.
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I didn’t tell you HOW you would carry them. I explained how they’ll be in the same queue as you. Because they have to be even when they don’t want to be. Because if they want better gear, they’ll have no other option.
How will they get io and ilvl? Friends or buying carries? I assume you knew there were ways to increase one’s io and ilvl without being a great player. But I suppose I can walk you through that if needed.
And? We all want things. That doesn’t mean the game should just hand it to us.
Agreed. And as a reward for their dedication, they get better gear.
If your argument is that people will quit the game unless we hand them BiS then I reject that argument. Remember that WotLK was the peak of WoW sub numbers and it is way easier for low skilled players to get good gear now than it was in Wrath. WotLK truly was a raid or die environment as far as gearing goes.
Higher ilvl gear will not fundamentally change your WoW experience in any way unless you’re regularly doing content that’s difficult enough for it to be on the loot table. That’s what people mean when they say “you don’t need that gear.” If the only joy you get in WoW is from seeing a big number when you open your character screen rather than playing the game, then frankly those players should quit. If you have a goal, either put in the work to achieve it or accept that it won’t be achieved.
They don’t benefit materially. Somehow I suspect that my guildies will continue to run lower level guildies through +5s. Largely because people in my guild are friends and help each other. The reward is that your friend gets better gear. That’s why when we’re in that position, we even go out of our way to bring as many classes of their armor type as possible and change our loot specs so that they can get more gear traded to them at the end of a run.
There are two paths to high gear:
- Become skilled enough that you’re able to tackle content of that level without relying on others carrying you.
- Make friends who are willing to carry you because that’s what friends do for each other.
There is no option where you don’t do anything and simply hope that a nearby powerful stranger notices that you’re in the same vicinity as them and offers you charity. If you’re unwilling to pursue either of the first two options, then you simply will not get higher level gear. You’d be hard pressed to find many people willing to shed a tear for you when that happens.
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This is not my argument, it’s your strawman.
Why would I say it will be worse if players your skill level are playing with you instead of doing low level content?
I’m saying that the low skill players are going to be forced to play with you. That it won’t be a good thing for either one of you.
I’m also saying it isn’t a bad thing that higher skill players have a choice about whether they want to do high keys with you or low keys with somebody else.
The devs seem to have finally realized that high level players aren’t a big fan of it being optimal to spam run trivial content for upgrades.
Not only does farming 2s give you valor faster, it gives you more chances per hour to get that one item, and with the uncapping of valor you can bring it to max quality as soon as you get it.
The game is in a healthier state when players can actually obey the rule of “if you have a higher ilvl than the content drops, you should have minimal reason to engage with that content should you not want to”. Legion players will remember spam running +9s for legendary/TF rolls, BFA will remember island grinding, SL/DF will know valor farming in baby keys.
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I mean people can Q for anything lmao… i can Q for a 25 key right now you think ill get in ? You gota get kidding me
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You mean I have to complete content at my level instead of farming brain-dead speed-runs? The horror! Obligatory /s.
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