Why can't we have a more casual WoW?

Community General Discussion
181

If a level 70 character arrive to the Dragon Isles today there would be lots of things to do but at that level the rewards are sub-par.

What are you on? I’m doing that now. The leveling process is not designed to be engaging and it shows.

Gear is not the issue. The content is just bad. It’s too easy and too linear, and the flow is constantly being interrupted to serve a mediocre story.

To an MMO player any garbage that rewards loot = content. To normal gamers content = overcoming a unique challenge and being rewarded.

182

I get that a lot of people might like deterministic gear but then you’d have people saying that gearing is heavily timegated which personally I would find worse so you can’t win. RNG is rng which means that you always have a chance to get gear which often is a good enough incentive for people to do content.

Like I said earlier I think personally it’s fair that the game wants to push people into guilds, I think that this is good for the game if it’s seen as a small advantage. I don’ think many guilds pug content as much so that might be more a guild problem. Same goes for group loot I think it’s fair for the game to incentive you to bring a diverse composition, I think the benefits overcome the disadvantages when it comes to those when it comes to group play.

183

I find, Vanilla, TBC and WotLK had its grinds. But most of those grinds where not obvious. Like there was a faction, when you ran a certain dungeon or killing certain enemies in the world you would see that you got rep for that faction. You had a choice to either grind the rep, or just gain rep naturally through running dungeons/raids.
There where mobs that dropped certain items in the world, a friend’s working colleague as example kept running Eastern Plaguelands That little city in the bottom right because they can drop the Recipe for the “Crusader” enchant. He made a pretty penny that way. Not to forget the many spots in Vanilla that where mysterious in the world, where you had those Elite mobs dragonkin.

Nowadays, you have to grind the rep. In BfA when that Azshara underwater area opened up, if you wanted those shiny new skills for your Heart of Azeroth you had to grind the rep there. And to grind rep means running the World Quests and in Dragonflight the World Events.

Thing is those things bump you on your nose and tell you “do it for power”. Allot stuff is linked to power gain now, not optional but mandatory. It wasn’t like this before. Now you grind in the world for power gains, so that you can perform in Raids.

But yeah Vanilla was slower in gameplay. I play Final Fantasy 14 as well, and that one has a pretty long world CD. Which makes it play more laid back then WoW. It’s combat rotations less complicated then those in WoW, which doesn’t mean you will fall asleep. I find it just right while in WoW some classes are to bare-bone while others are overloaded with stuff.

Speed. I started to play WoW again because I want to watch less of the trash on YouTube. Playing a good 5 months now, despite WoW feeling so much faster I feel like there is to much waiting around in there. Especially those World Events, which makes me watch YouTube again because… there is not allot going on in WoW.
Weird isn’t it.

I think a big issue is that they kept ramping up the stakes. First we killed Illidan, then we killed Arthas the almighty Lich King. Then we took down a Dragon Aspect. Then we killed the crazy leader of the horde, empowered by an old god.
Then we went to where the almighty Legion was and defeated it. Defeated the Legion… the Legion that has uncountable soldiers from thousands of planets, that never die but return to the twisting nether to be reborn.
Then we bashed Azshara… the Azshara that we heard so much throughout the game… after the Old God that gave her power. We went through the portal into the land of the dead, as a living… and came back to tell the tale. Then we helped giving the Nightelves a new home, defeated some more Primordial Dragons.

I mean where does the epicness end? We are no soldiers, we are basically slayer of gods. In lore in Vanilla there where so many fantastic beings that the stories talk about… and over the course of time we went there, killed them, and moved on.

184

Well there are two issues. Not every guild does raids, so tuning it for guilds and only guilds doesnt necessarily work, and not every player wants to join a guild.

One thing I am confused about is your description of saying deterministic loot is time gating loot. Please explain? If I go in with 9 of 12 classes and loot drops for us and it goes to one of the three that no one currently is, zero benefit to us has happened. If the game recognized we had 9 of 12 classes and drops 3 pieces of gear for those 9, then 3 players got loot and benefited from it.

Edit: I should mention that I mean 9 out of 12 classes, so a group of 14 players just doubled up classes because its a smaller guild.

185

Well, the content is indeed largely boring with a lot of time fillers but that is something that the writing team need to adress.

186

Well those fantastical creatures were insanely out of our reach and we, in our minds, knew that if we ever encountered them then we’d just crumble because we were nothing compared to them. But then they made those fantastical beasts a fightable enemy and we ate it up because we felt powerful and the story was good, but then it got to where the story fell off and we were just… Gods among sheep instead of sheep among Gods. Our roles flipped.

187

If you had deterministic loot they won’t let you gear faster with it, they would add a way with a currency to stretch it as long as it takes right now.

I get some people join social guilds or etc. and it’s probably time to let people join multiple guilds. I think it definitely work to tune content for guilds, but you can do most of it without a guild which is also a decent compromise. I think every player in an mmo should want to join a guild as it’s the base of an mmo for me, I’m probably on the side that you can choose to not join a guild but the game shouldn’t be designed for those players mainly.

Because it is better to encourage that way people to invite to their group certain class/spec that can use that loot rather than encourage stacking the same classes/spec. It shouldn’t feel a group doesn’t want you because of your class/spec.

Probably won’t like my answer but the current format they’re pushing is 20 players for guilds in mythic so that’s the format they also balance around, if you’re a smaller guild even when it comes to raid buffs you will struggle to get them all. The game is not designed around smaller groups but it does let you do up to heroic raids with them.

188

Ah okay, I understand. While I agree with you mostly, you can not sinply materialize more players out of thin air. Keep ib mind that while, yes, we want certain classes because they are good. That does not mean that we can get those classes within a guild run without forcing someone to play what they do not like.

If this was a conversation about Mythic raid then yeah, force them for the sake of competition but being as I am referring to Normal and Heroic, it should not be punishing us for doing it with what we as a guild have as opposed to saying “weeeelllllll, its designed to have a DH, so go get a DH.” Like yeah, okay, let me tell my 55 year old dad that has olayed Warlock and only Warlock that he needs to play a DH cause Blizzard said we need a DH (when we do not actually NEED one in order to defeat the boss).

We should be able to get gear that is based on the number of people in the instance as well as what classes we have.

Edit: fixed Rogue to DH cause i’m dumb and forgot which class I was talking about

189

Those are called single player games where it doesn’t matter how long you are logged in or engaged ith the game. Where you can just spawn in whatever you want and no thave to actually fo anything for it.

191

I apologize but are you responding to my comment specifically or someone else? (It’s not marked). I am just trying to clarify in case you meant to respond to someone else

192

The problem is also that class stacking with personal loot (which is the way they made it work so loot wouldn’t drop for other classes) is also way way better when it comes to getting specific pieces of loot. The advantage you get from it is way too strong in raids and caused degenerate class stacking on heroic. Group loot is the equilibrium when it comes to that. Yes it might feel worse for smaller groups but it also encourage bigger diverse groups in raids.

193

Elden Ring is not a single player game, it can be played with friends. And it has PVP.

If WoW implemented fromsoft ghosts (outside of cities) it would strictly improve the game. It would fix world bosses, help the open world, and lower toxic interactions in the game.

If somebody walks by you in the open world you would see them, but they would effectively be on a different layer. If you wanted to invite them to your layer just target them and right click their potrait. Easy, seemless, brilliant.

It’s a better system. What would be the downside?

194

While I understand and I hear you, that also actively destroys and dismantles guilds that struggle to find new players to join them and then the olayers they have jump ship to a degenerate guild that bullies their players and that’s not a good player retention model. I’m not sure that there’s a good way to go about it, but as someone who did a week of Amirdrassil and watched as all 4 set drops went to Monk and we had zero monks, we all just went “I could have just never did this this week. Complete waste of time”. I would rather see them drop a piece and have an option to say something like “switch to an equivalent piece for my class, but it can no longer be traded”

195

Aren’t tier sets already pieces that can be used by multiple classes?

196

Yeah they are, but we had 3 weeks in a row where we had tokens that had 3 classes that we just didn’t have because no one liked playing those classes so we called them (the unused set tokens) “Pokemon Cards” and made it a joke to collect 9. If you got to 9 then you basically won 25% of the gold in the Guild Bank like a lottery.

It was our way to turn something out of our control into something somewhat useful

197

If you had deterministic loot they won’t let you gear faster with it, they would add a way with a currency to stretch it as long as it takes right now.

Yep. That’s how PVP has done it for years. And it’s how it should be done in PVE too.

RNG loot sucks. Idk how anybody could defend it.

198

The game is already incredibly casual.

199

The old way didn’t gate how I could tackle rep like the new WoW. That is the problem.

If you want to play 6 hours one day a week or 1 hour a day that is still something I would classify as casual in my book.

But at least you have flex how to tackle that content as a casual player.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

200

The only thing they care about is if you are an active user or not. It doesn’t matter if it’s 5 hours a day or 5 hours a week.

201

No because that eliminates some of the social aspect of MMOs. It’s a whole package and it’s being picked apart by whiners who obviously don’t like the genre. Go play Fortnite then.