are they doing that when being trained and when it isn’t for a kill though? I would think that this is probably only happening 5% or less of the time, if that [e.g., that most blocks are defensive].
I keep seeing people say this, but unless it’s to guarantee securing a kill, because the enemy is clearly just going to train my teammate into the ground without my help, or to stop someone from capping an objective, I very rarely block offensively.
I feel like people are being a bit disingenuous acting as if a mage should NEVER ice block offensively lol.
I don’t see how blocking for any of the above reasons is any different from when I see dks popping ams and ibf first 2 globals, rets bubbling at 100% hp to pump harder, rogues using cloak and/or evasion when their offensive cds are up, trinketing offensively, etc.
I’m all for the nerf mage mobility movement (specifically via removing or reworking master of time talent for starters, and then maybe looking into displacement and/or shifting power if deemed necessary), but this would-be movement for “mage used block offensively = mage broken op” just doesn’t work imo.
Ya it’s a hard class to play, it’s the biggest reason I love the class. It’s got good stuff but to claim its mobility is broken is silly. It needs the mobility is has.
same here. I think both mages and warriors could use a small nerf to their mobility though. Master of Time is honestly just overkill imo
For those that don’t recall what that talent does, it requires 1 talent point, it reduces the cooldown of Alter Time by 10 seconds (making it a 50 second cd minus shifting power reduction) AND it resets the cooldown of blink/shimmer when you return via Alter Time.
Mages already got a pretty big gut to stuff. Master of time really isn’t that great because alter time got nerfed already. Without that and the mobility they have they would be a dead class. They need to nerf frost mage and get rid of their auto roots. Warriors on the other hand are just nuts, arms are doing way too much damage.
yeah that would be another good solution imo. I think our mobility is insane against most specs (even though alter time doesn’t even feel good to press anymore tbh, people just tunnel into it now after the first one), but yeah warriors doing the damage they do atm is just absurd atm.
I think you meant the opposite of what you said here, but no, not everyone needs to play at a gladiator level to enjoy the game.
However, the people youre playing against are also not fully utilizing their kits either.
Iceblock is more than fine as it’s almost always a guaranteed survival button where classes like warlock can die through their 3 minute wall.
Greater invis is EXCELLENT and you saying it’s “garbage” just suggests you’re not utilizing it correctly.
It’s a shorter cd shadowmeld with a wall attached to it, dude.
Also overpowered barriers is like renewal/frenzy/impending victory/exil on a shorter cd and unaffected by mortal strike effects with bonus additions.
Blink being able to remove a full stun every dr and shimmer doing what it does are the best mobility buttons in the game except maybe evoker hover and even then they’re situationally better. But you’re also not accounting for displacement, alter, cd reduction with shifting power (which honestly needs to go for pve and pvp imo). And mage has this mobility ON TOP of incredible cc like blast wave, db, perma slows/roots, etc.
You absolutely can, especially because you can reliably not take damage.
Mage has a very high skill cap for sure, but it’s not anything close to squishy so long as you press your buttons.
The thing is Mages actually are squishy. You can obliterate a Mage if they don’t react and press their tools or the stars align somehow and you can connect on them for a decent chunk of time.
Their utility like Blast Wave and Frost Nova and their mobility—Shimmer, Displacement, Alter Time reset help a Mage kite to minimize damage taken in the first place. Not to mention a good amount of snares both passive and active (Frostfire Bolt, Slow). Then, comes the defensives which are Overpowered Barrier, Alter Time heal (can be purged), Ice Block, and so on.
These tools are very effective at keeping the Mage alive. If you take away too many right now, the scale will tip entirely in Warrior’s favor, and probably some other melee classes as well will dominate the meta more. Elemental Shaman will take over as the true number 1 caster to play with Mages nerfed.
The point of all this is, yes Mages actually are squishy. Kept alive by insane mobility and a powerful plethora of defensives and utility. But Mages are certainly not tanky in the same way a Warlock or a Shadow Priest are.
The game needs to be balanced by first looking at why casters feel nearly required to play Mages with so much mobility and Elemental Shaman with all their instant casts just to enjoy the game in the current meta.
My opinion is that the best melee specs are actually near dominating the meta. With the general popularity of melee classes along with their ease of play. You don’t have to deal with getting interrupted on melee, every ability is instant for the most part, many melee are very survivable and have a lot of CC and mobility. People honestly just enjoy zugging on a melee which I don’t necessarily prefer, but it’s pretty apparent.
Greater invis isn’t used for the invisibility part of the skill, it’s used for the huge damage negation you get for 3 seconds after.
2 blinks, displacement, a knock, and altar all keep targets off you. Altar also heals you back up.
you absolutely can count that as survivability. Why wouldn’t you be able to? it’s keeping you alive. Mages kiting is so great, they literally use their Ice blocks as extra trinkets sometimes.
Also,
these are all derogatory. Let’s not play the victim card here, yea?
Sure but classes like warrior have much simpler and easy to use kits.
Sure, but keep in mind and can be mass dispelled and shattering throwed. Also, frost is the only spec with two.
How exactly is it excellent? It’s garbage because it instantly breaks from any kind of damage. That wall is only 3 sec’s other classes have better walls. Overpowered barrier is buggy and doesn’t work half the time.
You only take stun blink against rogues. It’s really not that great. Shimmer has longer cooldown. Mages needs the mobility or they die. It’s why everyone is playing frost, nerf frost instead of gutting every other mage spec.
So can lots of other classes.
So they should have an even higher skill cap while other classes are just W keying to kill you? That’s silly. If you gut mage other classes need to be gut as well. Most classes have two or more mobility buttons, why can’t a squishy caster have that as well?
It’s more like 4, counting the sec you’re invis. So, a 90% dmg reduction for 4 seconds shuts down a fully stacked FoF from a monk, a full spear duration from a warrior and pretty much any big go really… It’s insanely good.
Agreed! But that’s ALWAYS true of melee vs range and why there are always more melee than range overall.
True, but that will basically never result in you dying, as both are very very easy to stop and you can still get incredible value out of ice block even just by removing a stun or set of bleeds.
Respectfully, you not seeing how strong these buttons are just shows that you’re not using them as well as you could. Is shadowmeld bad? Are renewal, healthstone, or impending victory bad? Is desperate prayer bad? Imagine if all of those things had a short enough CD that they could be used every DR with bonus effects and not be effected by mortal strikes.
Being effectively unkillable vs rogues IS great and unique to the mage class over everything else.
Yes, but also allows you to do some pretty insane things because its usable while casting and also has a 2nd charge.
Not even close to the same world that mage can.
I’m not asking for a gut, but mage has been practically impossible to balance because it has more tools in its kit than any other spec for a while now. And also I agree that classes, like warrior for example, also need their mobility pruned in addition to mage.
That’s also not true. Druid has wild charge. Hunter has disengage. Lock has port and gateway. SP has nothing. Shaman has gust of wind. None of these things are even in the same universe as mage mobility.
