My biggest gripe with pugging, despite an overall positive experience doing almost every M+ with three to four pugs, is that I don’t have enough metrics to gauge players by. An io score is a decent start, but have a UI element showing me their average kicks/defensives per dungeon or something.
I don’t care if they’re meaningful interrupts or life saving defensives but it’ll at least reduce the risk of me bringing a shaman who didn’t know he had an interrupt ability to a +10 in the first week of an expansion.
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You cant even start to really learn a dungeon till +10
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People tried to learn in normal / heroic but everyone kept rushing through so fast that they basically was just hanging on for a carry.
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how are they gonna learn if noone tells them?
Because enemies in N/H/M0 die very quickly and you can’t learn anything that way.
They might not know it’s out of their range. The game just keeps increasing the level of your keystone as long as you keep timing it (which is hard not to do in low keys, if you’re in a group where a few people know how to play). So you have ilvl 340 people who started with their M+2 key, got valor farmers to carry them, have a 5 key, got valor farmers to carry them again, and then have a level 8 key, probably for a dungeon they’ve never done before. Maybe they time this one too and end up with a level 9 or 10 key. Oh this is SBG I did this one before in timewalking so sure, I’ll do the 10 SBG. Then they three chest it and now the ilvl 345 person (someone traded them a belt which was a 100 ilvl upgrade) has a 13 azure vault key and they are doomed.
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So you skip straight to +10s? Like This position is untenable. It’s one thing to skip to +5s or whatever, but everyone should learn before mechanics kill them in one shot. If it brings you to 10% hp on a +5, you’re gonna die from it on a +10.
I also skip to 10s because low ilvl players can’t get into groups so new alts have to use their own key. And the 2 becomes 5 becomes 8 becomes 10. After three dungeons I’m at level 10. I could delevel it but I could also run it and get a 398 vault so why would I want to delevel it?
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The reason I deleveled keys that I was beneath is because I know that it’s currently above my pay grade. I don’t like getting progress I didn’t earn personally.
It’s not about what I want for me personally, it’s about integrity and fairness toward others. I know what it’s like to have an unqualified player on my team and I’d rather just take the person who has adequate experience.
It took me… 8…16…24… m+ runs evenly spread across all 8 dungeons to get to +10s “fairly”. You can’t compensate for that level of experience.
Then once I got to +10s I’ve done well over 24 runs to increase my experience at the point where all mechs are introduced. The funny thing is that I am way more geared than most, and also way more experienced.
To be fair, I’m not a bad player. 10 isn’t hard for me. I was the healer and ilvl 361 but we two-chested it with 0 deaths. Of course the group carried my low gear, but I did my job because nobody died, I even did 10k dps.
I don’t doubt it, but when you prog my way you are always the one who carries because you are always equipped to be the superstar on the team. It’s almost impossible to do this many runs and not be the best person on the team, both in gear and experience.
It’s why I encourage lingering to learn, but I’m pushing now. If everyone played like me, m+ would be 100x better than it is now.
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Are you using health potions and healthstones? It’s on you, if you aren’t.
Looks at Saucepot raider io. Player issue 100%. Shouldn’t even need healing at that key level.
I respect that. For me, I am trying to optimize my vaults. So I am doing 20s even though I am not geared for them yet. I’m going to become geared for them by doing the 20s. Sometimes I am the worst player in the group, sometimes I am the best. I make it clear in the 20s that I am not the best and I’m just looking to complete the dungeon. However, there are other people who just want to complete 20s too and we all get 421 gear every week for it.
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? Always push keys until the game knocks you down because you failed. The only reason to delevel keys is because you’re carrying friends or sellling.
I mean it works so it’s fine, I just don’t think that behaviour helps the community overall and I don’t think it’s the optimal way to progress from the perspective/goal of “getting good at mechanics.” It is the optimal way to increase ilvl and m+ rating, but it doesn’t have the same effect on making a player reliable as when someone progresses with control and intention.
You don’t owe anything to the community though, and it doesn’t matter. I just wish more people played like me because it would for sure make a huge difference. Imagine 90% of players did all M0 > all +2 > all +5 > all +8 > all +10s until they feel “ready” to leave the nest. From my perspective, the starting line is +10s. It’s when the training wheels come off entirely. No reason to feel anything bad about learning to pop off at that level.
@Fauxstrasza you should focus on your own prog.
that’s such an unproductive way to do keys. Although if you just join groups of others, that’s usually what ends up happening anyway.
If pushing own key? no reason to delevel because you’re not “ready.”
I mean completion groups are actually very good for getting good at the mechanics. People that kind of suck at the fight have to get better or they won’t kill the boss. In regular groups, people just leave because the key won’t be timed so they barely get any practice.
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Why am I so geared and experienced if it is so ineffective?
You’re neither. 396 Ilvl, and 13 being highest key.
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Ah true, says the carried raider who justifies skipping ahead of where they should be.
Shortcuts dont make a man.