Why are people so obsessed with Hunter being melee?

[Heliôs-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

Ah, the domain of common knowledge. No experience necessary.

ok bro I wish you the best in your fantasy land

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Ogdenir-alleria

The class design had pressure to make changes that would grab attention. Melee Survival helped do that as it was heavily discussed.

It would have been uncalled for as since the beginning, every new class has been a FULL melee class. DKs, all melee DPS. Monks, all melee DPS. DHs, all melee DPS. Of course, there was emphasis on the tanking role too, which is important for dungeons and raids. But none of these had a RDPS spec.

It took us THIS LONG to get Devokers. And now there’s the new Auggie spec to think about.

This was just as controversial as the JFK assassination in all of WoW’s history. I don’t think there was any ONE event–maybe besides the reigns of terror of Tigole and Furor who have infamously crashed Sony’s EQ servers when their pure classes didn’t get their way over hybrids–that would top it.

It really didn’t have to happen when you already have a new Demon Hunter class and all that. That would have attracted plenty. How many Hunters emigrated to DK and Monk over the years?

There were better ways to reinvent SV for Legion, no doubt. It’s water under the bridge now.

@Heliôs-frostmourne

ok bro I wish you the best in your fantasy land

That’s what I expected from someone who probably picked up WoW for the first time this year OR chooses to stick his head in the sand.

And you know what? I got tough love from people in the forums back in Vanilla, so don’t act like you deserve anything better than what I got starting out.

[Heliôs-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

chooses to stick his head in the sand.

Isn’t this what you’ve been doing the entire conversation with Asthelon though.

[Asthelon-area-52]

@Jackalswind-eonar

10.2 is not live just yet. We can’t do it right now;

PTR is up and available for all

@Jackalswind-eonar

You meant to say it will cost you a raid/dungeon slot if you don’t play the quote-on-quote “optimal” way

Yes if you go out of your way to do less damage, some people might not want to play with you.

[Bepples-barthilas]

@Bullwinkles-area-52

You mean like how you ignored the fact WoW is still the 900 pound gorilla when it comes to mmo’s? Or do you mean a game that is near two decades old has lost players over time, hot take that one.

You know two things can be simultaneously true: WoW can still be the biggest MMO while also having drastically declined from its peak. There’s not exactly much compelling competition in the genre. It’s not an excuse for ignoring and excusing WoW mistakes.

@Ogdenir-alleria

Youtube personalities are just same as forum posters as they both want attention. Even if it negative as ragebait can get even more views. You don’t even need to back up your claims as long as it hooked someone.

The videos I linked absolutely backed up their claims.

Categorically dismissing all WoW youtubers and their stances is snobbery.

@Ogdenir-alleria

I was posting what was stated by Ion why even if Survival Hunters started to see range abilities returning it would still remain a melee spec. I then just restated it in my own words. My argument was not about if I agreed on this that I only want to acknowledge why range Survival would never be brought back. Even though I do not believe in what Ion reasons were.

Then you need to point out that it’s his opinions and that they’re incorrect. It doesn’t do any good to just repost them as if they’re fact.

@Ogdenir-alleria

Blizzard is a business and it is always about money first. WoD was the last time Blizzard showed subnumbers and they had lost huge numbers. They needed new blood and were willing to take risks if it gave a gain.

As you have even quoted Survival was designed to appeal to a niche group of poeple. New players and those who were on the line about returning. Blizzard was leaning on that melee would be enough of an appeal to get more poeple involved with the next expansion.

Where to even begin?

Survival is one spec of one class. It was totally absent from any Legion marketing material because it was that minor in the grand scheme of things. The centre of the marketing for Legion was Demon Hunter. THAT is the “out of the box risk” you have in mind. Not Survival.

The amount of new players who would potentially join the game just for Survival can’t ever be quantified, but given the extreme lack of appeal of the concept within the game (a fact that was obvious well before they did it) there’s not a chance it was ever going to be a hook for new players.

You are trying to give a profound economic-based take but your understanding of how much economic influence melee Survival of all things has is totally separate from reality.

@Ogdenir-alleria

Even if they lost older players they had classic coming, and with classic Survival also returning would just recuperate those losts with older players shifting over.

As of 2015, when the decision was announced, Classic was still a long way off and possibly not decided upon yet.

@Ogdenir-alleria

Even all this rage about the switch to melee has only helped out Survival. With all this posting about how unappealing melee is has interested some into actually trying Survival just to see if it true, or they just play it to come back to make troll posts.

“All publicity is good publicity” is shaky logic to begin with, and it’s especially farcical for melee SV which is still just as unpopular as it’s always been.

Here’s some advice: stop trying to play the devil’s advocate on melee SV’s behalf. You’re not good at it.

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

@Bepples-barthilas

Categorically dismissing all WoW youtubers and their stances is snobbery.

You’re reading far more than what I was explaining. It was not even directed at this video. I was explaining on much larger scale that many YouTube videos pick topics that will start a heated conversation. It same as forum posters who make comments to start a fight.

@Bepples-barthilas

Then you need to point out that it’s his opinions and that they’re incorrect. It doesn’t do any good to just repost them as if they’re fact.

But I was not making an argument against what Ion had said in a interview. It was to show that Blizzard had decided that they would not bring back Survival as a range spec no matter how close it started to gain more ranged abilities.

People want to say don’t hold your breath on it, but it already been decided that no matter how unpopular melee is the redesigned was always expected to have a small population.

@Bepples-barthilas

Survival is one spec of one class. It was totally absent from any Legion marketing material because it was that minor in the grand scheme of things. The centre of the marketing for Legion was Demon Hunter. THAT is the “out of the box risk” you have in mind. Not Survival.

What about the GameAxis interview with Adam Kugler and Senior Producer Travis M. Day?

During the interview they brought up Survival Hunters and quoted:

" And then Survival Hunter…

Travis: It was another one that was missing its niche. It’s kind of like Marksman except more traps? Or different arrows? So it was kind of missing that “what is the core fantasy?”

Having it move into the melee space and actually return to its roots that was the vanilla Survival experience. You got your Raptor Strike and all that and having those come back and play a role, moving into melee, giving mobility like the Harpoon to draw you in – it’s like it finally gave them a unique identity. If this is the beast companion guy that you’ve always wanted to play then you’re going to have that role."

That a big chunk for one class. Then there were articles from WoW Head, MMO-champion, Eyes of the Beast, and even this

The History of Melee Hunters (Vanilla WoW to WoD)

So no it was hyped up for its big Legion reveal.

@Bepples-barthilas

The amount of new players who would potentially join the game just for Survival can’t ever be quantified, but given the extreme lack of appeal of the concept within the game (a fact that was obvious well before they did it) there’s not a chance it was ever going to be a hook for new players.

WoD had such bad press that Blizzard need to do something big to get the focus off of it and get players excited about Legion. One of those was a complete rework of classes that would grab attention, and possibly bring players back.

@Bepples-barthilas

You are trying to give a profound economic-based take but your understanding of how much economic influence melee Survival of all things has is totally separate from reality.

No, this about how much money drives the direction of the game, and how far Blizzard as a company is willing to push to increase sales.

@Bepples-barthilas

As of 2015, when the decision was announced, Classic was still a long way off and possibly not decided upon yet.

They make decisions years in advance all the time, and preplan around these.

@Bepples-barthilas

“All publicity is good publicity” is shaky logic to begin with, and it’s especially farcical for melee SV which is still just as unpopular as it’s always been.

Here’s some advice: stop trying to play the devil’s advocate on melee SV’s behalf. You’re not good at it.

Then you don’t remember “Buttgate”? And all the hoopla over Tracer showing off her backside. I got a huge reaction from publicity and got Overwatch on the map.

There are posters on here who have read your tantrums and then went to go try Survival to come back to tell you about how fun it was. You’re your own enemy.

[Ukr-azralon]

Most of the hunter players never wanted it in any form and it’s the least played hunter spec accordingly.

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

But Blizzard still didn’t listen. Blizzard has a long track record of making decisions that no one asked for. It’s either you play the game they want or you don’t.

[Kinoh-grobbulus]

Jason, it’s Ben. It’s time to come home man. Everything is going to be alright, please call your mom.

[Wølfstein-tichondrius]

I do remember when Warlocks had a Tanking Melee Spec…it was hilarious and soooo broken blizz took it away…still had the sheer pleasure of going into bgs as a Melee Lock with wings killing everyone…also, Survival melee hunter was and still is the best hunter spec…it rocked in Vanilla…it ruled in MOP and its beast in Dragonflight…no complains and still love it after 19 straight years of doing Hunter Lock Rogue trio <3

[Bepples-barthilas]

@Wølfstein-tichondrius

also, Survival melee hunter was and still is the best hunter spec…it rocked in Vanilla…it ruled in MOP and its beast in Dragonflight…

Ah yes the famed MoP melee Hunter…

[Bepples-barthilas]

@Ogdenir-alleria

You’re reading far more than what I was explaining. It was not even directed at this video. I was explaining on much larger scale that many YouTube videos pick topics that will start a heated conversation. It same as forum posters who make comments to start a fight.

If it doesn’t apply to the videos that were linked then it’s a pointless comment.

@Ogdenir-alleria

But I was not making an argument against what Ion had said in a interview.

You should be because it’s incorrect.

Uncritically restating his incorrect stances without any correction or disclaimer is tantamount to endorsement. Plus, you added your own arguments such as this nonsense “they did it for sales” angle.

@Ogdenir-alleria

It was to show that Blizzard had decided that they would not bring back Survival as a range spec no matter how close it started to gain more ranged abilities.

People want to say don’t hold your breath on it, but it already been decided that no matter how unpopular melee is the redesigned was always expected to have a small population.

There have been plenty of “never gonna happen” things that ended up happening, including melee Survival itself.

In fact melee SV was far further into “never gonna happen” territory right before they went ahead and did it.

All it takes is the correct change in leadership.

It’s also not a great look for melee SV that it’s yet again in its 4th expansion an extremely unpopular and avoided spec, yet now we have WotLK classic where despite all the revisionism it’s a widely popular and lively spec. I’m less confident than I used to be that WoW classic can correct misconceptions and revisionisms of modern WoW than I used to be: there are still plenty of people running around saying, for example, that Survival was a melee spec in classic and Thori’dal was bad for Hunters. However it’s less tenable to sincerely argue that ranged SV was an unpopular/failed spec. It’s too easy to post an up-to-date Warcraftlogs link to disprove that now.

@Ogdenir-alleria

That a big chunk for one class. Then there were articles from WoW Head, MMO-champion, Eyes of the Beast, and even this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkRPsGHBrXw

So no it was hyped up for its big Legion reveal.

Describing a one-off interview question and a 3rd-party youtube video as a “big chunk” of advertising and implying it was close to the marketing demon hunters got on any level is such a mental take that I’m not going to spend any more time addressing it beyond that to spare you the embarrassment.

I don’t want to say too many negative things about Travis Day out of respect (he passed away last year), but needless to say he was incredibly mistaken in that interview. Survival’s “roots” included a ranged weapon as the most important part, just like the rest of the class.

@Ogdenir-alleria

WoD had such bad press that Blizzard need to do something big to get the focus off of it and get players excited about Legion. One of those was a complete rework of classes that would grab attention, and possibly bring players back.

Yes so they had a big Broken Isles expansion with classic characters and a brand new class. Melee Hunters were not part of that. It was a very minor part of a large expansion that predictably grabbed very little attention.

To believe that melee Hunter was part of WoW’s rebranding effort is delusional.

Do you know what attention it got at the 2015 Gamescom announcement? It was a off-hand interview question response after the event. What do you think that says about the marketing focus?

@Ogdenir-alleria

No, this about how much money drives the direction of the game, and how far Blizzard as a company is willing to push to increase sales.

Again: you think it’s a clever economics-based take, but in reality it relies in an incredibly poor understanding of the economics and marketing of WoW.

If Blizzard thought melee Hunter was a big pull for new players, they would have proudly advertised it a hell of a lot more before Legion’s release. Instead demon hunters got all the attention. You know why? Because almost no one cares about melee Hunters.

@Ogdenir-alleria

They make decisions years in advance all the time, and preplan around these.

Legion was announced in August of 2015, just 4 months after Nostalrius shut down kicking off all the pro-classic discussion and long before Blizzard put a team together to develop WoW classic. There is not a chance Blizzard made the decision to make SV melee after deciding to make WoW classic. It’s another delusional take.

@Ogdenir-alleria

Then you don’t remember “Buttgate”? And all the hoopla over Tracer showing off her backside. I got a huge reaction from publicity and got Overwatch on the map.

Overwatch was already an immensely marketed and media-covered game before this controversy so this is yet another dismissable delusiuonal take. It’s also not comparable to the melee Hunter sitution which wasn’t covered much outside of WoW.

@Ogdenir-alleria

There are posters on here who have read your tantrums and then went to go try Survival to come back to tell you about how fun it was. You’re your own enemy.

I’ve seen this happen a grand total of one time, and the person had clearly played Survival extensively before based on their post history and raider IO profile so they were just posting crap because they thought it gave them clout. Grats for falling for it, I guess.

I’ve had far more people tell me that I, personally, with all my posts, made lots of people not want to play SV and contributed to the negative stigma of the spec.

I mention the latter just to prove a point that both are, again, delusional takes. Survival doesn’t need any help in being the pariah of class design, and if my posts make people want to play SV evidently I’m not doing a good job at that because it’s still a pariah spec hardly anyone plays.

[Emowan-cenarion-circle]

god youre more annoying than kelliste, and twice as full of it

[Bepples-barthilas]

Remember when you claimed SV was a melee spec in Classic?

[Asthelon-area-52]

remember when you claimed that a forum icon was indicative of something significant lol

[Bepples-barthilas]

It’s the class icon, and it is significant.

[Asthelon-area-52]

ah yes, just like mages are all about staves and their class identity is staves. or priests. both very known for the staff prowess

[Ogdenir-alleria (Ogdenir)]

Survival can use staffs too. Does that mean Survival Hunters are mages?

[Asthelon-area-52]

I guess so!

[Autumngrove-stormrage]

The reason people are so obsessed with a melee hunter is because that is quite literally what our ancestors did for millions of years with tools like spears, knives, and axes.

It just thematically fits, and if you want to see a fantasy example in “tv”, go watch some scenes from the show “Primal” by Genndy Tartakovsky. That thematic is exactly what a melee hunter should have looked like.

EDIT Rexxar exists in the lore as a major character with tons of lore and backstory that fits perfectly with the melee thematic.