Why are folks upset about SL?

[Stabs-moknathal]

@Stormbreáker-kiljaeden

yup, it adds a lot of risk and tension to the game.

Id rather have a timer than lose all the loot I spent time picking up because I made one mistake or the game bugs out. Getting DC, feared into a dodad, stuck, etc. We allready know Blizzard response will be “We appreciate you contacting us but we can not do anything in regards to loot in Toghast.”

[Aarlan-tichondrius]

For me it’s seeing all the systems they plan on rolling out at launch. BFA has too many systems. Kind of a system “bloat” that happened over time. If there’s too many at launch, how many will there be at the end? It makes things too complex, which ends up making alts largely unplayable, and has to be confusing to new players.

More quality content would be preferable to more systems imho. Even if it takes extra time to launch.

[Jhannae-bronzebeard (Jhannae)]

@Theodas-hyjal

but the usual crybabies sprinted to the forums because they didn’t hear about getting free epics in the mail every Tuesday.

LOL. I like your point of view. But Truth hurts. Crybabies not getting anything free like BFA? Bad expansion. LOL.

[Eternosus-galakrond (Eternosus)]

Is the OP incapable of reading the threads for himself?

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

• Adventures
• Anima Chanelling
• Covenant
• Legendary rune crafting
• Renown
• Soulbinds
• Sanctums

Shadowlands: Renal System bloat.

[Arentas-silver-hand]

Take BFA cloaks, essences, corruption, and azerite system. Add them in all to a new expansion at the same time. Then make it so once you pick your azerite traits your stuck with them and those traits dictate what corruption and essences you can use.

Then imagine if any of it got nerfed and you wanted to change, you’d have to start your grind all over from scratch and could never go back to using your old azerite traits should they happen to get buffed later.

That’s shadowlands covenant system.

[Nippyss-barthilas (Nippyss)]

If they just unlocked them so we had freedom to move

[Hinàtà-emerald-dream]

thankfully if i got mad at everything ion said i would of quit ages ago

[Valhallen-uldaman (Valhallen)]

@Lezsk-area-52

they changed it back (thankfully) and Ion said you could run Torghast as long as you want.

Frankly, there was some good and some bad in the update. This was definitely on the good side of the news for me.

Listening to him talk about the systems though… ugh… if it looks like a talent tree… why isn’t it just part of the ridiculous talent tree already!? I don’t like gaining abilities, losing abilities, being forced to relearn that which my character already had… ugh. And the grindy bits - like anima and the relationship thing. All of those are time-gated and metered out throughout the expansion (or at least that was my take on it).

Those are the things I didn’t like in Legion and I hated in BfA… not gonna lie… Shadowlands looks like a dumpster fire of them.

[Avellin-malfurion]

@Vhx-black-dragonflight

Ion said if you die in the Maw, you’re likely going to lose whatever you gained while you were in there. Maybe players don’t like the thought of losing that. I think it’s a great feature personally, will make players more aware and careful of their surroundings, which benefits other aspects of the game as well.

That can also heavily favor some classes over others. Like visions right now, some classes can breeze though them while others struggle.

[Barrison-emerald-dream (Barrison)]

Class design really seems to be hit or miss for a lot of specs.

[Nyeping-proudmoore]

@Dexterworgen-nordrassil

What is so boring about not risk losing the loot you already earned? If it’s so boring why have you been cool with WoW the last 15 years.

You’re obsessing! You’re all worried about losing something and you don’t even know what it is. Calm down dude, it will be ok.

And to answer OP, GD is the place to come to whine and/or cry. Secretly, most of these people are excited but that would never fly here. I think they worry about losing “edge” points.

[Tinkerrific-dalaran (Tinkerrific)]

@Vavelva-wyrmrest-accord

What changes were made, exactly, that made it disliked?

Its more like they are repeating systems that many players dislike:

1. Major power from Rental abilities instead of permanent class changes. At the end of the xpac you’re no more powerful than you were at the start.
2. Anima Power, the new Azerite/Artifact Power
3. Another Mission Board
4. Another set of Followers who will regularly regale us with insipid dialogue.
5. Covenant Sanctums are a combo of Class Hall 2.0 and Garrison 2.0
6. Some stuff said about alt-friendliness but really not enough.

#1 and #2 just annoy the heck out of me.

For me I want SL to be a home run on day 1 for me or I may quit wow. I don’t care about server issues on day 1 (fully expecting that) or perfect class balance but I want to see core game mechanics that are good. No repeat of early bfa azerite gear which was awful and ignored by Blizz.

[Zaraadra-moon-guard]

What happens if there’s a server disconnect through no fault on anyone and they lose their progress? It’s not a fun design unless there are checkpoints installed so that if progress is lost via hardware issues we’re not dinged in the process.

[Life-bleeding-hollow]

Covenants are an RPG choice tied to a large portion of character power progression, and you’re penalized if you wish to switch them, and from what I’ve heard from some of the Alpha testers, some of the conduit builds are pretty much monstrously stronger than others, to the point where if you’re chasing damage, there’s absolutely zero choice for some classes.
But I expect the conduits and soulbinds will get balanced a bit more before launch, however it’s a problem that confirms some of the worst fears presently:
Covenants aren’t going to be balanced among each other.

[Vanforth-wyrmrest-accord (Vanforth)]

@Vavelva-wyrmrest-accord

What changes were made, exactly, that made it disliked? I only got one answer on actual gameplay content, and that was the grind.

It’s not about the gameplay for me, it’s about the story. It’s entire hook hinges on the worst elements of BFA. Blizzard dragged the game’s narrative through the mud to get to where we are now, and I’m avoiding Shadowlands out of principle because I don’t want to see things get any worse.

The writers seem to have given up on trying to make a cohesive, sensible, and compelling narrative; half the plot hooks of BFA were dropped, the other half made no sense, were forced, or twisted character motivations to fit a ridiculous (and rehashed) plot - and I’m tired of it.

I’m happily sitting out Shadowlands, and will wait for reviews halfway through to hear how much worse its gotten; I’d rather not waste my money just to be disappointed.

Blizzard needs to earn back the trust they’ve lost if I’m going to make any more expansion purchases, and they can do so by actually putting the story up near the top of its priority list (which I don’t expect to happen, unfortunately).

[Minatoe-wyrmrest-accord (Minatoe)]

More of how they haven’t learnt anything from BFA and are repeating it.

[Huggywuggles-antonidas (Huggywuggles)]

First, it was Bolvar getting owned despite the fact he was never shown to be nearly as powerful as Arthas.

Then it was speculation about a Sylvanas redemption.

Then it was gating Torghast.

Then it was the debuffs in Torghast.

Then it was a corporate statement on BLM.

Then it was “OMG A TRANS CHARACTER!!!”

Then it was “OMG I HAS TO BE A TRANS CHARACTER!!!”

Then it was “Too many systems!!!”

Then it was “OMG BLIZZ DOUBLED DOWN ON THEIR CORPORATE MESSAGE!!”

Next week it’ll be “I didn’t get MY beta invite! BLIZZ FAVORS STREAMERS!”

Not sure what the fire will be the week after that but I’m sure the faux outrage is sure to be both depressing and hilarious; or to quote Mr. Popo, “I call it deprarious!”

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

Systemlands is just BFA on steroids and front loaded. Feels bad.

[Fugubar-thrall (Fugubar)]

More layers of grinding. I suppose this will keep everyone occupied until the next expansion…