Who is saying that shadow is too busy?

no it wasn’t, 10.0 shadow was genuinely so much fun to play (even though numerically it was garbage), idk why every spec needs to appeal to everyone, just don’t play it if you don’t enjoy it. Slowing a spec down that already spends too much time pressing one of the worst fillers in the game is not the winning move for fun’s sake


Nobody said it had to appeal to everyone. It’s a DoT spec, and as such they should all be designed with the same mindset: DoTs doing the majority of your damage with a few spells to use here and there like utility, otherwise it’s DoTs n filler.

I don’t know why people think DoT specs should be some complex machine, they’re not. They should be very simple and if you don’t enjoy the DoT aspect of a DoT spec then don’t play the DoT spec. DoTs n filler should be what 90% of DoT specs should be designed around and then flavor/thematic spells and utility fill the rest up.

Stop trying to make DoT specs into complex specs n other stuff like if it were a burst DPS spec like Ret Paladin or something, it’s not nor should any DoT spec ever be designed in that regard, ever.

Did you play shadow before legion? Have you played boomy lately? Dot specs have always been the most complicated that a niche group of people enjoy playing. They dumbed shadow down a lot. It’s way too simple. I’m glad your enjoying the simplistic turret spec. They need to rework the rework imo. I’m having a lot more fun on my boomy. I can’t even bring myself to log into my priest because it’s the absolute worst the spec has ever fealt. I leveled a monk and started playing a healer , I’ve never wanted to heal and the rework drove me so far away from the spec I actually gave healing a chance. Good luck bud!!!

I understood the spec quite fine actually. I’m sorry you didn’t know the priority of which spells to use but don’t accuse me of not understanding how the spec works.

That sounds like horrible game design. That would entail that your Whole build would be Vampiric touch and Mind Spike, maybe Devouring Plague.

They are actively nerfing our utility if you haven’t noticed. They obviously don’t want that.

You should never be playing any different with or without a Surge proc. Because your filler spell gets buffed doesn’t make it become more of a priority.


Dot specs haven’t worked that way since the beginning of Shadowlands when blizzard decided to nerf dot damage considerably. Dots are primarily damage enablers now, with big damage in other buttons. All the current dot specs work that way and I don’t see that changing anytime soon since blizz seem happy with it.

Shadow hasn’t been button bloated since 10.1 rework so I don’t see how previous tiers/versions are relevant either.

To bring it back to the op, the only thing that makes sense to me is surge of insanity got nerfed because of our tier set adding extra buttons, which is backwards design imo but they seem insistent on gutting our base spec.

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Only version of Shadow I played Pre-Legion was from Vanilla to WOTLK. All you did did was apply dots, mash Mind Blast on cd, and spam Mind Flay. Literally nothing else there.

BFA Shadow was probably the clunkiest because of the whole Void Form energy bar depletion mechanic. Also, you primarily cleaved by tab dotting and having your Shadowy Apparitions do your damage. You were playing a minigame to keep your Void Form up as long as possible the entire time.

The Shadowland’s overhaul was my least favorite. The Shadowy Apparitions cleave gameplay was replaced with a clunky Mind Sear mechanic and Shadow had an overly complex 2-minute dps activation. PI, Void Form, Necrolord Ability, Shadow Fiend, Trinkets, etc. Not in that same exact order, but you could only do real dps every 2 minutes with everything up. You also had to choose between single or aoe target damage.

Dragonflight v1 Shadow was way overboard with the amount of abilities lighting up on your screen and still used the Mind Sear gameplay loop.

v2 Shadow (current) is just a watered down version of v1 with AOE cleave like BFAs ghost cleave, except its Psychic Link. With the 10.2 changes it’s mainly just a 2 button dps class now for most of your rotation. I personally rather they get rid of Mind Games as a button to press instead of making Surge every 3 casts.

The spec is a bad design. I’d take anything pre legion in its place , I personally loved the 10.1 iteration because we had different stuff to do it wasn’t a 3 button rotation. Mind games is a joke of an ability atm. Void torrent doesn’t feel good to press. Void form and void bolt being tied to 1 button feels super bad. Having to cast offensive cd’s is super duper bad. Having your class balanced around PI and being able to give it to other people is counter intuitive. Do people even use halo and divine star? It’s really not fun or engaging. I had hope after the ret rework that spriest would be fun to play at least, but all they did was over tune a gimped spec so people enjoy it because of the big numbers. As usual blizz nerfs shadow into a shadow of its self.

Yes, and no, they weren’t before Legion, actually. They used to always be: throw dots, use filler, use 1-2 other niche spells when was needed with the exception of boomie. Boomie was one of the oddball DoT specs that actually was not considered a DoT spec despite having 2 DoTs that do a pretty good amount of damage. They also had a third because Insect Swarm and Moonfire were different and you had something akin to Sunfire that wasn’t Insect Swarm or Moonfire. Nonetheless, it was always throw DoTs, use filler for most specs going into MoP, into WoD and into Legion.

They toned down the absurdly bad amount of procs you get flooding into your brain all at once, yeah. Why do you need 5 procs happening at the same time? I know it’s not actually 5, it’s like 2-3, but thats 1-2 more than is actually needed happening at the same time. Does y’alls brains need BING BING so much that unless you have bing bing flooding it you’re not having fun or enjoying yourself? Not just WoW, but every game that seems to be doing this lessens the next generations ability to pay attention and lessons their attention span, along with other stupid things like tiktok, of course, but every generation seems to be closer and closer towards goldfish attention spans.

I do agree with you on this in that I think the capstones and capstone areas should be reworked and redesigned. I think the only things Shadow should be about are DoTs, filler, and then give them the other mechanic of apparitions/tentacles as non DoT aspect of it, that’s it. So basically what I said earlier in a post before somewhere about making the Yogg Saron capstone into an entire area dedicated to Shadowy Apparitions; making them travel faster, making them spawn double of what they spawn now, generate a tiny bit more insanity and then leading into the capstone where you end up making them splash 50% of the damage they deal onto all nearby enemies of the target they hit. That’s a capstone.

Making the left capstones into nothing but DoT things; take away the mindbender crap and instead give execute DoTs that tick faster n do much more damage as the enemy reaches closer to 0% hp, and then the 1 next to it rather than Echoing Void crap from BFA S4, make DoTs do splash damage onto all nearby targets for like 20% of their normal damage.

Last node on the right is fine, just spawn the tentacles off the priest character, themselves, so that while you’re running and doing mechanics and whatnot they’re still hitting the enemy targets. While your tank constantly keeps moving they’re still within range of hitting the target.

Boomy will feel better going into 10.2, by a lot, I mean A LOT because of that tier set, more specifically that 2pc. Nonetheless, boomie was never considered a DoT spec by neither blizzard nor the community even though it had 2-3 DoTs at all times in every expansion, which makes 0 sense but I will roll with that. Your fillers, Wrath and Starfire, were actually why boomie was called a BOOMkin. They stacked crit and did mega damage via Starfire/filler spam moreso than anything else. DoTs were there to help generate stuff or to proc certain benefits, otherwise they didn’t do as much damage.

Spriest was always a DoT spec, considered so even by blizzard. Same thing with Affliction, Assassination and Feral. These were all considered to be damage over time specs by both blizzard and the community.

DoT specs should actually play and be gameplay focused very simply; their skillset should be in micromanaging DoTs across multiple targets. Nowadays when people play DoT specs most want them to stop playing like DoT specs. I don’t care that their reasoning is: “Because the gameplay evolved” that doesn’t matter. The entire premise for a Damage over Time spec is to trade off burst for just that: damage over time. Time being the keyword here. They should do more damage than every other spec in this game if it last long enough, the difference should be in giving up your longer and bigger damage for burst damage, which you should have a tradeoff of doing even less damage in the entire 18 seconds of a DoT a non DoT spec should be doing 50% of that DoT spec’s total damage, even ST, but has it up front much much faster.

Think of DoTs as like investing; the more you invest the better off you will be in the future, however, not everyone wants to invest and wait years or decades for investments to pay off. That’s how DoT specs should be considered and focused around and built. Anything longer than 1.5, or we could even say 2 minutes, should be given to DoT specs. This negates 99% of trash pulls in keys, but favors most boss fights in keys. This 100% full on favors prog raiding for bosses, but basically evens it out during most farm.

Newer players weren’t understanding it because it didn’t let you know. Why do you expect people to go look up outside resources in order to play something when many other games do a better job teaching newer players IN THE GAME itself without you going to look up outside resources out of the game? Why can’t the devs explain this better towards newer players coming into the game instead of making them do 2000% more work than they should when they’re new?

That’s not horrible. If you think so, you really don’t like DoT specs for the actual profile of being just that; a DoT spec. You would be the type of person who would go into the accounting industry and try to change the job because “it’s so boring.” It’s a very simplistic and boring style for a very simplistic and boring type of niche. DoT specs should be just that; about the DoTs and favoring your DoTs for the mega majority of your damage and juggling them. Nothing more, nothing less. If you think it needs to be more that is because your brain needs higher stimulation which is why, again, I said you’re not actually trying to play the DoT spec for what it truly is; a DoT spec all about managing DoTs and shouldn’t be more realistically speaking.

They’re nerfing it, yes, and I get why people are mad about that, I empathize with their anger in this regard as utility is always something that should be cool and interesting, fun and subjective to every person, themselves, kinda thing.

It’s highlighed, which means it’s important. If it weren’t important then don’t highlight the spell. If you want newer players to understand “don’t press this button, even though it literally lights up, unless you have nothing else to press” then make it more clear to them coming into the game. Make it not light up, and then they won’t press it because it lit up. As you level in this game the more important things tend to usually light up, the less important things tend to stay. Procs are important, so when they proc they light up.

I agree and it was before Shadowlands, it actually started in BFA.

Yeah and that’s a very stupid design goal and philosophy. Better to rip it apart and just not have DoTs at all in that regard because, again, from a thematic standpoint a DoT spec not having much damage from said DoTs is like telling someone “a car is coming on your left” when it’s actually coming from their right. It makes 0 sense, it’s backwards and is very stupid.

Also why many people keep asking them for more DoT damage from said DoTs, and also why people keep telling them to bring back older versions of said specs where their DoT damage / rot profile was much better. If you look at Affliction on the Warlock forums, many players keep on asking them for a Wrath style Affliction spec back where the majority of their damage were DoTs and DoTs hit like 5 times harder than they do now.

Even if that’s the chase still the priority is basically maintain DoT’s for mastery. Use your highest damage:Insanity builder. And use DP for maximum uptime. I really don’t know what’s hard to understand about that. It’s been the design on shadow for quite awhile now.

What are you even saying. That is indeed horrible game design.

You keep using this analogy and It just doesn’t work. first off there is a group of people that choose shadow because of its difficulty. They aren’t changing anything, they wanted something difficult to play and it’s being dumbed down because people can spend literally 10 min to look through the Ivey veins guide.

It’s not a dot spec otherwise VP and SW:P would be a much higher % of our damage. Truth be told they are more of a debuff that gives us our mastery + and some damage on the side. The spec is designed around having dots, yup. But they more so enable our spec rather then do damage.

Generally when things light up it means that it empowered in someway. But even then it doesn’t not make that spell a filler ability.

Truth is if you’ve got the time to come to the forums and argue that the spec is too busy, but don’t have the time to go to icey veins and do a 10 min read on the spec you shouldn’t really be taken seriously.

  • First off the guy that does the guide there is basically an Old god of shadow and the discord he’s part of is very helpful.
  • secondly if you’re new and genuinely trying to learn the spec one would think they’d look to outside resources. If they can’t be bothered to do that, I would also assume they really don’t care that much about the rotation.

Man is living in 2006 circa Vanilla wow. No one wants to play a spec that throws up dots and then pushes 1 - 2 filler spells for the next 18 - 24 seconds in 2023. Affliction doesn’t play like that either.

Classic is still a thing if you find a more involved rotation that most players find enjoyable and dynamic to be too difficult.


+1 well spoken.

You also missed the part where I said Affliction isn’t like that, and that many, many many people want and keep asking for the DoT specs to go and be like that, Affliction moreso for this. Literally go look at many of the posts on the forums for Locks saying MR is bad, most of those people in there do not want MR and this spec as it currently is. They want WoD, Wrath, and Legion versions of Affliction, same with other DoT specs. Many people pick a DoT spec to play with DoTs and do massive DoT damage, not for DoTs to enable them to do other things, nothing of that resort.

Classic is not live, no matter how much people want to say “go back to the past” No, it’s not the current game. What a lot of us want when we want to return to past iterations is for them to be brought into the live game via talent trees and via spec mechanics.

Truth is most DoT specs are like this, which is what people miss. I, myself, miss this, too and keep asking them to make DoT specs about DoTs or just get rid of the DoTs aspect of it entirely so it no longer has any DoTs involved. Not keep a half assed version alive that neither pertains nor involves DoTs much outside of being forced to go “1, 2, 3” to get to 4. Just go 1-4 right away like every other non DoT and bursting spec in this game, then, if that ends up being the case. Right now it’s basically just edging.

Go play a different game then. I can empathize with wanting more of our damage from dots, but it would make those specs largely irrelevant in anything but single target raiding. That’s not where the game is anymore, and I don’t want my spec to be irrelevant for 90% of the game because some people think putting dots on 3 mobs and then spamming shadow bolt or mind flay is engaging gameplay.


It’s only irrelevant to you because people like you think you need more buttons to push. People like keep trying to play DoT specs and then getting annoyed at how “boring” and “simple” they are when that’s always been the case since before Legion was an expansion.

You’re 100% wrong, actually, as all they’d have to do to make it better is make DoTs tick faster and hit harder, then it’s fine. It would be full on relevant, just like they should actually reduce the amount of burst in every spec and buff their sustain in every spec, too to make it more entertaining outside of “zug zug go brrr” then nothing for 3 minutes while your CDs come back up.

It’s the same for both PvP and PvE in games; people have zugzug brains where they think they need stimulation all the time, that’s not the case.

This fried take that everyone but you has a zug zug brain and limited attention span because wow is faster paced now is really something else.

I’m glad blizzard ignores arm chair game devs like you so that us dopamine addicts can push shiny buttons in between watching our tok tiks. Make sure you take your meds today gramps.

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Sorry, you are the person that’s 100% wrong. Do you not see that Blizzard has been moving the damage profile of “DoT Specs” away from DoTs at the same time Mythic+ was introduced? It’s because DoT’s do not work in Mythic+ type scenarios. Burst AoE is king. DoTs were too strong on Council type fights and kept getting DoT specs nerfed.


Buddy, I think you’re just playing the wrong game. Classic is out there and I’d suggest you dabble into that. Because dot specs have been this way for quite a while now.


Yeah classic is alive and thriving right now. Go cry about buttons over there. This class went from the most fun it’s been in 7 years to what it is now because of people like you. Thanks for ruining this class.

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Thank you for taking credit for ruining my favorite shadow experience since they jacked everything up in Legion.


Apparently the class lead for Spriest only has 3 fingers, that must be why its too busy.