So, I’ve seen for a while that people have speculated the Shadowlands is flawed. Despite having nearly infinite afterlives, that the four we’re seen have issues to them, and this is a serious issue. That Sylvanas is possibly working on it. I’m curious, with that in mind, what the alternatives presented should be.
If the Arbiter, Archon, Primus, Winter Queen, and Prince/Sire need to go, who should decided who goes where? How should the issue of the Kyrian’s doubt be dealt with? Who should protect the realms. So on.
I’m curious what else there is beyond either letting things be chaos or sticking someone else dubious in there.
Hard to say, to be honest. We often perceive death as a terminus, but Death/Shadowlands in the World of Warcraft universe appears to be something more akin to a step in a cycle of rebirth or another plane of existence.
The issue I have with the concept of the Eternal Ones/covenants is that categorizing the Shadowlands into a set of realms with specific functions smacks of Order imposing its influence, which seems counterintuitive to the separation of the universe’s forces (as in the cosmology map).
9.1 might reveal a bit more about the fundamental aspects of the Shadowlands to allow us to create a better picture of what the most appropriate organization structure of the realm of Death is. We’ve seen very few unperturbed depictions of what Death’s influence might actually look like (the Legion, the Naaru and the Old Gods have both tampered with most of our current exposure), but it’ll be interesting to see how things play out.
You know that there is virtually no chance of any such nuance being explored. Right now the main problem is the anima drought which was caused by Sire Denetrius subversio of Revendreth’s purpose. He siphoned the anima which was supposed to supply his realm and the others and sent it all to the Maw.
The most that the players are going to see is the resolution of that immediate crisis, and then they’ll be moving on to the next thing wherever that might be.
With the above depressingly in mind, I would push back on the idea that the current structure is necessarily “Order.”
I think Order can be viewed in a number of ways. Control and authoritarianism would qualify, with the Titans offering absolute authority on the way the system functions and perfect order being a completely uniform system. Algalon re-originating entire planets fits into that definition to a degree. In contrast, there are rebellions in the Shadowlands and they aren’t just “poofed” out of existence.
Speaking toward “uniformity” shows Sargeras in some ways a true Titan - albeit corrupted and misguided. While his goal harnesses the forces of disorder, he uses them to bring a uniformity of death to the galaxy. Not good by any stretch, but definitely uniform.
Then again, just my opinion.
As to who should run it? Theotar of course.
I’m in favor of taking down the Jailer and the rest of the Eternal Ones and then reminding whichever future leaders that while we’re going to ignore them in the near future, we might pop our heads in at any moment to go rampaging through them - so behave. Because we just slaughtered some “Eternal Ones.”
In all honesty? I don’t see any mortal being doing any sort of better job then the current system, especially with mortals holding all sorts of prejudices against those we see as different than us.
I say let the eternal ones continue on, Denathrious is imprisoned but the other leaders seem to be making changes for the better.
I believe theyre fine, all the problems the covenants are facing are because of the Jailer’s actions and then made worse by the anima drought, which is an unnatural occurence
The forsworn began because Uther (who naturally belongs in Bastion due to his commitment to service) had his soul damaged by a weapon of the maw and simply couldn’t forget as he should have. Devos saw his memories and got all crazy that the maw is out there. But they Kyrian way of forgetting life and dedicating themselves to an eternity of service is fine, they operate on the fact that a soul is not merely a collection of memories, but something else with a nature.
The drust incursion is due to Mueh’zala empowering them to attack ardenweald.
The maldraxxi civil war is because a soul (KT) was allied with the Jailer, and the primus went missing.
Revendreth was promised power and supremacy by the Jailer which turned its lord into the very thing the realm is supposed to expunge.
This is all the Jailer’s fault. the rest of the shadowlands work well, only the jailer is making a fuss about it and breaking everything like, as we would say in my country, a crazy goat in a glassware store.-
Kyrians are getting a new Paragon apparently, Polemarch Adrestes has an Adrestes <Paragon of Devotion .> model in the files.
So I think “Loyalty” is going to be replaced with “Devotion”; instead of forcing all Kyrians to follow the rules up until now regarding “letting go” of their past (thus, Loyalty to Bastion), the approach will be belief in the need to be neutral, and to let go of your past biases because it is needed and just rather than “forced” by purging your memories.
Re: Arbiter, maybe that’s the point of Calia in the story if not a new Forsaken leader. “There must always be an Arbiter”; the Arbiter is given a “mortal” perspective by Calia fusing with the Arbiter to restore her.
Nah he’s fine.
There’s really no other option to be honest, the realm runs as needed.
Opposite: no soul should be sent to the Maw automatically, all souls should be given a final chance in Revendreth. Which also fixes Sylvanas’s issue that she had been damned after her suicide.
No damnation, but mandatory atonement for all the damnable.
I dislike the current system and all, but that’s fair. I need to give the Primus at least 9.1 to do … something. Other than crafting gear out of debris from former souls that is.
Oh, this is fascinating! I figured there would be a new Temple of Devotion, since the level 80 renown title for Kyrian covenant is “Disciple of Devotion,” but I did not realize Adrestes would be stepping into the role of Paragon. I wonder if Kleia will be his Hand.
I think this is going to happen as well. The final chapter of the 9.1 campaign is called “A New Path,” which I am betting (hoping?) will show us the resolution of the Kyrian covenant story.
I am skeptical about the WQ solely based on the fact that it seems odd that the zone is heavily slanted toward returning things to life. It seems out of place. They seem to actually be an exporter of anima with no return in terms of importing. The rest of the Shadowlands focuses on sustaining the system of Death.
Kyrians acquire souls for use in realms. They bring in raw materials. Some are used to become new Kyrians for continuing the process while others are sent elsewhere.
Venthyr serve to atone souls and as, a byproduct (or goal), anima to power the realms. They convert raw materials into useable materials. Some are converted into new Venthyr to continue the process while others are sent elsewhere (and the useless are discarded).
Necrolords serve as a defense mechanism. They only “consume” materials in that those materials are put directly into use, but that use is for defending the system. And possibly entertainment. Some parts of Maldraxxus are a little weird but let’s chalk that up to the Primus disappearing.
The Night Fae seem to solely consume anima. They use it to nourish the Wild Gods to either return to their worlds or serve the Night Fae. They seem to bulk offload resources to “Life” and those resources do nothing to help “Death.” The Wild Gods don’t send anima back. When they die they just go back to consuming the resources of Death. It’s almost as if Death is serving Life. I get it - Circle of Life and all that - but they do stick out. While I do believe the Drust’s claims are fiction, I would think their use of Death/Nature magic fits a lot more in the Shadowlands than Life/Nature.
Taking off my tinfoil hat now (because I think it’s just poor design not that she’s actually “evil”).
There is no way I’d support any of the horrifying Moth abominations leading Ardenweald. They look like something warped and twisted in a nightmare.
My choice? Highlighter bear Droman Aliothe. He looks regal and powerful, plus compared to the weird trees you can understand what he says, and he is a lot more serious than the evil Moth creatures.
Also can we address the elephant in the room? The Archon is an idiot (or else she’s evil).
She ignores rumors/evidence of a shadowlands weapon on Azeroth. After the Arbiter is disabled the Kyrian continue to perform their duties - unabated - simply dropping souls to their doom in the Maw. Then they have the ridiculous conversation in Kingsmourne. The Maw continues to grow in power! How can that be?
The show 24 had a similar moment, someone is threatening the President and his brother asks him if he knows the person. The President says no, which causes his brother to say that the terrorist knows him. At which point his brother asks one of the dumbest questions ever: “How can that be?” And the President gives an equally stupid answer, “I don’t know Wayne. I don’t know.”
I’ll pick Bluther begrudgingly because I don’t have a better choice, but the entire leadership there needs to be demoted. I don’t think they’re actually evil - just too stupid to function.
On the other hand, Life is also serving Death; Life seems to only create things that die. Wild Gods go back yes, but all the other animals, plant life, and lesser magical life creatures (e.g. Dryads) all stay in Ardenweald.
In fact, given Wild Seeds are seemingly giant Animacones, I speculate a majority of the anima that “falls from the trees” as Animacones are all the countless smaller natural life. Ever flower you kill, every puppy that dies, etc, all become animacones for the Wild Gods. We also don’t see any “normal dead animals” in the Shadowlands, such as Huln’s pets.
Wild Gods revive on the constant death of nature. Ardenweald’s anima is from the constant death of nature.
All the anima entering cannot only be from Life-dedicated mortals given Ardenweald predates the first mortal being sent to Ardenweald.
That wasn’t always the case though. Chronicle tells us that in the beginning all of creation had immortality. At some point around the time of the War of the Ancients that immortality stopped.
I doubt it was just proximity to the well of Eternity but to the destruction of G’hanir. From what it says in the Tome of the Ancients, G’hanir once served the same purpose Ardenweald did, to renew Wild Gods.
Y’sera was supposed to return there before she was bound to Ardenweald by Elune.
Just food for thought.
Death as a contruct could have happened much earlier than previously thought. Maybe the rise of Galakrond was the start.
Given Primus had a “friend who could see timelines” (likely Aman’thul or Norgannon imo), I think it’s more that Primus showed Aman’thul around and chose to copy First Ones aesthetics for Ordering the cosmos (again, pseudo retcon)
Eonar also seems to have a hand in the records of Bastion.
Both Norgannon and Eonar are mentioned in Legendaries too.
When Sargeras wanted to create a new Patheon of Disorder he only tried to use the souls of four of the Titans, I can see that tying in to the ordering of the Shadowlands if the Pantheon of Death was a Titan creation, and not naturally orrcuring. It seems like they locked away the real pantheon of Death away in the Maw because Death is Chaos (separate from Disorder.) That’s just my guess.