Which buff do we really need as frost? healing, damage, or toolkit?

Classes Death Knight
1

i read chillpill’s forum about death strike buffs, which i full heartedly agree with. but is the DS buff enough? 9.1 is changing a lot of things. for one, it seems like classes are able to apply a healing debuff, which destroys DK because any buff they give us in the healing department will be useless.

obviously i would love a dmg buff, a toolkit fix (make death pact baseline or wraith walk), and a healing buff.

they could give us an overall damage buff.

But in pve i top damage charts. but then again who cares if we top charts in pve. that wouldnt break the meta or game. it also wouldnt push any other dps out.

In battlegrounds i top charts, and not because of the dot, but because of obliterate. But I also dont have killing power with obliterate really, not with every other class’s CD heals, shields, and maneuverability.

Pof is my only kill window and even then it doesn’t last as long as wings and its easily escapable. outside of it, i dont even really apply pressure. my gear isn’t great, but i average about 1.5k oblits and 4-5k crits (it also only crits in pof and our passive proc). but if they buff obliterate damage, then we will top charts even more. but then again who cares if we top charts in pve. that wouldnt break the meta or game.

i think a buff to obliterate would be great and necessary. BUT i think buffing frost strike and making “Koltira’s favor” a normal passive would be the most impactful buff ON TOP OF healing buff to DS. the only reason i use frost strike is to get runes. outside of that, it is useless. might as well take it out of the game. if the “koltiras favor” legendary was base and the chance to refund 2 runes could be buffed by conduits then frost strike would be even more useless. might as well spend the runic power on DS. so a buff to both abilities is desperately needed.

Also it would be really nice if chillstreak had a slightly larger bounce range. just like everything in our toolkit, CS is so easily played around. it only requires like one person to step out of the bounce range while its on 'em to completely negate the whole go, which is easy considering every class has a million escapes. IT’S STUPID. I hate relying on it, but also love when it deletes people.

I dont expect any changes tho. I also know with DK the balance game is very tricky because we could easily be broken or amazing and noone wants us to be amazing lol.

I dont want to play a broken class like paladin. i like the uphill climb, but now it’s a mountain climb.

I made this forum because Blizzard doesn’t give DKs a 2nd thought. But if we gave actual solid thought out ways they could buff DKs then they might pay attention.

3 Likes
2

Just Soul Reaper! All we need!

3

really? you think that is all we need? i would like a soul reaper type spell for frost, but that spell isnt really that good on UH as is, so i dont think thats the only thing we need.

4

Soulreaper for execute damage ideally as shadowfrost but even then just having an execute option is huge, PoF changes reverted to 15-second duration and 45-second CD, Chillstreak baseline or at least as a talent option in order to use in PvE, reversion of Death Strike nerfs in PvP, Heartstop back in.

INB4 Kelliste waffling on about Might of the Frozen Wastes while saying the spec is perfectly fine.

7 Likes
5

Coherence.

In PvE our viable build is BoS, where you can be lead to think that is really strong in cleave fights when looking dps charts, but those logs are when you don’t get any mechanic on your BoS windows and proc perfect stats on cube.
So we need 1- AoE/Cleave fight, 2- Not get mechanics while maintaining BoS, 3- Get good procs on Cube to deal a good dps.

In PvP we’re support classes, we grip people together so the other dps can cleave and finish the job. Abom Limb and Obliteration deals a good damage, but you’re a one trick pony.

I don’t think frost has its niche since you can’t have some constancy in PvE and can be easily replaced for another spec in PvP.

6

As Frost? Why not DK class as a whole because to each certain extent I have way too many things to say for each specs of what could make the class feels better to play.

Overall Dks got a short end of the stick due to a history of being one of the, if not the most, anti-fun class to play against. Emphasis on “one of the”. Considering Dk is one of the class that has the most pvp related modifiers with drastic changes such as FWF, CH, BoS and the most notorious one being DS given history.

That being said, at minimum the buff DK need is the removal of PvP modifier for DS. It’s such an atrocious ability. It’s tragic that Dk has been reduced into a support class that is only really good when paired with teammates. Dk is a class that should be thriving by themselves by destroying enemies in their cold and frigid wake which is absolutely not the case right now.

1 Like
7

yes DK this xpac has been turned into a class that sets up other dps, which would be okay… i guess. but everything we have, the other classes have it better. our abom limb and frost fury can be easily negated. paladins have hoj which if they catch you without trinket then its death for you. theirs is one button win. ours is 3 and even then its sooo easy to negate because a bomb limb can be walked out of easily in bgs atleast. our one thing chillstreak is an opener and a poor one at that. so our class being a setup class is actually false. hunter is a better setup class lol.

8

FDK needs a lot of fixing, or an entire new rework. I want to reiterate how many hidden nerfs our class alone receives in PvP. It’s crazy no other class has as many as we do, and that’s why our class is a B tier at best. Imagine WE’D BE SMACKING LIKE A RET PALADIN if these nerfs weren’t here lmao. All of these hidden nerfs are from previous expansions that had different borrowed powers and different systems which makes absolutely no f#%^ing sense in this DIFFERENT expansion. These hidden nerfs are the devs lazy way of redesigning the class.

  1. Death Strike - Heals for 50% less in pvp combat (before applied healing reductions i.e. dampening, mortal strike)
  2. Pillar of Frost - Str gain is 13% instead of 20% (tooltip also says 1% str gain for each rune spent but its actually 0.7%)
  1. Rune of Fallen Crusader - Str gain is 10% instead of 15% (I hate knowing I have to resort to Razorice which is ideal for DW and not optimal for 2h)

Don’t get me started on why DW gets TWO enchantments but 2h gets ONE even though we are the SAME SPEC.

  1. Frostwrym’s Fury - Deals 66% less damage in pvp combat (Much wow, big dragon, hit noodle)
  2. Cold Heart - Deals 70% less damage in pvp combat (I can crit a dummy for 20k but crit a player for 4k???)
  3. Breath of Sindragosa - Deals 50% less damage in pvp combat (lol)

  1. Healing first and foremost needs to be at least reliable but the OP and Chillpills have covered that in great depth already. We can’t even death pact reliably if our healer isn’t ready to send in big heals for the 30% redox after effect - yet that’s our most reliable heal ability? There’s no way LB+DC and DS will heal that 30% quick enough on its own while we are under pressure.

  2. Take out Chill Streak and revert our hidden PoF, Fallen Crusader, Frostwyrm’s Fury, and Cold Heart reductions to a reasonable amount. I hate going into bgs and my teammates say “oH bUt tHaT cHiLL sTrEaK dOeS tHe mOsT dAmAgE” - yes because blizzard gave us hidden nerfs so that Chill Streak WOULD look good. I LOL at the fact that Chill Streak is recognized more than any other ability in our kit because it as the young kids say Pumps.

  3. Awhile back I made a post about PoF uptime compared to our counterparts’ offensive abilities.

PoF really only has a 10% uptime when you get Disarmed. 12 seconds turns into 6 seconds. It’s okay for Warriors and Paladins though because Disarm still gives Avatar 14 seconds of use and Avenging Wrath 19 seconds of use which is 15-16% uptime still.

Understand that PoF will never have “more uptime” because PoF is a 1 minute cool down and Disarm is a 45 second cool down. Therefore PoF uptime will always be <10% against Warriors, Monks, and Boomies. And that’s only 1 CC.

Meanwhile:
Arms: Disarms Monk
Monk looks at Arms with Monke face
Monk: wAt’s dISaRm?
Monk fists go brrrrr

To sum it up, our class needs a lot of work before it is satisfactory to play

2 Likes
9

Honestly… No class deserve that much of a hidden pvp modifiers for each ability that defines them.

Looking at them really irritates me.

That’s like… 4 abilities… literally. DELETED for pvp.

It’s madness.

4 Likes
10

yes. I don’t understand the reason why death pact has a negative. it shouldn’t. this isnt the days of overpowered Death Strike.
our Death Pact has a real negative.
our sac pact is…cumbersome which is its negative. it requires 2 globals.
our Lichborne requires a full runic bar to only heal a small percentage. I dont have the figures in front of me. its not a recovery button. for me its always last last resort because even as a freak out button its hard to pull off. i hate the healing done by lich.
DS healing is, as Chillpills said, largely useless and overshadowed by every other class.

this is why i created another forum where i argue that Blood is actually the easier one to fix and make amazing in PVP because like you said, frost DK needs a complete reworking. I think that Blood DK only needs damage buffs and transfusion as a talent.

11

When the tank spec is just as or more optimized for PvP than it is PvE LOL. Blood DK really does need just a small damage buff and it’ll be in a good spot. Frost is just everywhere in the most confusing ways.

1 Like
12
  • An execute ability like soul reaper
  • The glyphed version of icy touch added either to a new skill or perhaps frost strike ( we used to be a really good anti-healer class but nowadays every healing class has their non-penetrable absorb shield. The dispel effect from glyphed icy touch solves that problem.)
  • Damage buffs, we are not that slow moving juggernaut that Blizzard claims that we are. We are slow, but not that hard hitting.
  • I actually want presences back. I liked to be able to choose presence after the play style that the current situation needed. If you got focused, you swapped to Blood presence. If you were left behind in dungeons etc Unholy presence fixed that for you. Dps time, you swapped to Frost presence…
13

For me, all of Frost’s stuff needs it’s range uncapped. Chillstreak should just bounce all over the place no matter the range and have like a 25 yard initial range, BoS should have a 40 yard range since dragon breaths can have long ranges, Howling Blast 40 yards, Blinding Sleet 20 yards, unnerf Cold Heart in PVP or redesign it to just make Frost Fever apply it’s damage. Frost Strike with extended range… Whatever happened to this???

You might as well just make both Frost and Unholy a hybrid melee, caster thing like they’ve already shaped out relatively close to be since neither of them have any survivability anymore. Frost gets really close to being that, but they prune it every single expansion or make it’s ranged abilities do zero damage outside of Legendaries and borrowed stuff.

For the past 3 expansions your fighting style as Unholy and Frost has been kite melee and rot casters. They’ve decided they don’t want Unholy rotting in arena and Frost should be a target dummy support.
They should just cut out the middle man and allow them to DPS from range, since you spend 90% of your time being ranged anyway. But again, they don’t PVP in their own game so they literally wouldn’t have the slightest clue what direction to go in.

2 Likes
14

i would love to have some great ranged abilities like paladins do. Judgement is a 30yd ranged ability that can do pretty good damage. they even have ranged slows, albeit on long cooldown. but yeah i like your idea. because i feel squishier than a mage and ele shaman so, please let us sit in the back or make us less squishy. i feel squishier than rogues sometimes because atleast rogue has evasion and smoke bomb, which are very good defensives. our ice bound fortitude is worse than ele’s astral shift defensive.

OOOO it might be insanely op but if POF increased obliterates range by like 4 yards then DK would be amazing. classes could still get away. i mean who cant?

1 Like
15

Honestly, I feel like DKs in general got shafted with the pruning and simplification caused by removing the other two rune types from each spec, and frost got shafted the most in my opinion. Devs decided frost should be the “faceroll” spec, so it became TOO simple while Blood and Unholy (especially) became clunkier shadows of their past complexities. With the loss of presences and abilities drawn from other specs, DKs feel boring and overly simplified for the most part. We lost pet interactions, diseases, any semblance of a ranged toolkit, and lots of utility that just made the class feel complete before these changes gutted it.

I don’t understand how and why warriors were given most of what they lost back but DKs got… AMZ and Lichborne.