Where Do Peons Come From?

[Argorosh-azuresong]

Peasants I guess? Though Peasants appear to be free people unlike peons.

[Poised-moon-guard]

Peasants were the equivalent unit in Warcraft, but yeah, they do seem higher up in the relative food chain compared to peons. Especially since Stormwind at least has a fairly idealized/soft feudal system and absolute monarchy going on.

[Kordana-wyrmrest-accord (Kordana)]

@Ellinia-zuljin

I find the their depiction as dim-witted, comedic, disposable grunts really bothersome.

Is there an Alliance equivalent of the peon with the same characteristics?

It’s one of those things that’s a hold over from a less empathetic time. It happens with old franchises.

I try to remember that this is a fantasy world and therefore has no need of adhering to our sense of morality. For example the Sith have slaves in SWtoR and we don’t care because they are evil sith.

[Nioruf-thrall (Nioruf)]

@anon95961490

I mean… this doesn’t necessarily make the quote ‘better’, even with there being a “Peon Day” (Wonder why it’s not in WoW?). I wonder how we can justify the contradiction of Peons being described here as “lazy” yet… providing all the most grueling hard physical labor required by the Horde? I guess because sometimes Peons get tired from the hours upon hours of work they’re forced to do, and decide to sneak in a nap, they must be “lazy”.

This is all under the assumption they’re enslaved and aren’t paid for their work. People seem to just be assuming they’re slaves, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that. Yea, they have a hard job building, mining, and being lumberjacks, but that’s hardly indictative of them being slaves.

@anon95961490

ah yes, just some simple smacking of physical laborers to get them back to working in the desert…

Yes, and it’s the only evidence of Horde approved violence towards Peons that I can find.

Again, I haven’t been able to find evidence they’re enslaved. There’s a quest in BC era Shadowmoon Valley where you infiltrate the Dragonmaw orcs there and throw boots at Peons and making them work, but that’s Fel Horde.

[Poised-moon-guard]

@Kordana-wyrmrest-accord

I try to remember that this is a fantasy world and therefore has no need of adhering to our sense of morality. For example the Sith have slaves in SWtoR and we don’t care because they are evil sith.

Honestly, WoW still has a lot of really dark stuff that gets by because it’s a fantasy world, or because it happens to non-humanoid beings.

Case in point: Literally everything to do with dragons ever. I mean holy cow, does WoW become an R rated game when it comes to dragons.

[anon95961490]

@Ellinia-zuljin

Is there an Alliance equivalent of the peon with the same characteristics?

@Argorosh-azuresong

Peasants I guess?

Yeah, the Alliance equivalent of “dumb comedic dimwitted laborer” is the Peasants. The one place I know in WoW you can see them is in Elwynn at the Eastvale Logging Camp (though I assume there is more?). I feel like throughout the course of WoW, though, they have not be featured or shown as much as the Peons. For example, I don’t recall any quest where you have to smack them back to work like the Peon quest in Durotar.

@Nioruf-thrall

Yes, and it’s the only evidence of Horde approved violence towards Peons that I can find.

It’s the only quest that comes to my mind yeah, but I mean, it is still evidence of violence against peons, even if it’s just one quest. On top of the way they seem to be shorter, “dumber”, etc, which to me is indicative of malnutrition/ill treatment/development. Is there any evidence to the contrary, however? Like do we have anything that shows Peons being “free”? Or are there any educated Peons? I’m not sure.

[Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord (Tamanii)]

@Ellinia-zuljin

I find the their depiction as dim-witted, comedic, disposable grunts really bothersome.

Is there an Alliance equivalent of the peon with the same characteristics?

Peasants were the original equivalent in the RTS games.

- YouTube

WoW mostly got rid of all references though. There’s still a couple of NPCs that look vaguely like them with the “D’oh!”, “More work?” and “What is it?” lines, but that’s about it.

[Kordana-wyrmrest-accord (Kordana)]

Yeah it’s the disassociation from reality that makes it palatable.

Another example is Dwarves from Dragon Age. They have a strict caste system that determines worth based on blood lines to the point that the “casteless” aren’t even considered Dwarves anymore and live in squalor. Yet they are my favourite race from that franchise.

If I were to scrutinize them based on my own sense of morality they’d never pass; and removing their problematic aspects removes any sense of nuance or individuality. It’s the fact that they are intrenched in a fantasy universe that makes them palatable; because it’s not real we need not mull over the real world implications.

So with that being said; I really don’t care if the Orcs use peons as slave labour.

[Nioruf-thrall (Nioruf)]

@anon95961490

It’s the only quest that comes to my mind yeah, but I mean, it is still evidence of violence against peons , even if it’s just one quest. On top of the way they seem to be shorter, “dumber”, etc, which to me is indicative of malnutrition/ill treatment/development. Is there any evidence to the contrary, however? Like do we have anything that shows Peons being “free”? Or are there any educated Peons? I’m not sure.

“Peons are, as such, sometimes unhappy with their situation,- and sometimes gather enough self-confidence to try to progress in life. For example, Murg Stonecrack is a former peon who was promoted to the rank of mining trainerand allowed to boss around other peons.”

From the Wowpedia page on Peons. They have enough freedom to be promoted to higher stations, or even be hired by other by groups outside of the Horde, like Murg Stonecrack. Ricky Bozwallop of the Steamwheedle Preservation Society hires him, which shouldn’t be possible if he was a slave since he would be, you know, enslaved.

[Kazthan-argent-dawn]

@Nioruf-thrall

This is all under the assumption they’re enslaved and aren’t paid for their work. People seem to just be assuming they’re slaves, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that.

It comes from Wacraft 2.

For WoW peons are Orcs that failed at their ritual to become a “true member” of Orc culture. Thus they are used and threaded almost like slaves.

Warcraft 2 manual
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401408743511818241/742658149735071834/Peon.PNG

Warcraft 3 manual
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401408743511818241/742658159969304596/Peon2.PNG

@Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord

Peasants were the original equivalent in the RTS games.

Game wise yes, lore wise not quite.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401408743511818241/742659084481724466/Peasant.PNG

[Windsor-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Poised-moon-guard

Case in point: Literally everything to do with dragons ever. I mean holy cow , does WoW become an R rated game when it comes to dragons.

When it comes to dragons, it’s not just WoW. Order of the Stick is what taught me that in D&D, dragons are the only species that have fully-written statblocks for the different stages of age and growth - from wyrmlings (even younger than the “Very young” age) to great wyrms.

[Kazthan-argent-dawn]

@Poised-moon-guard

Case in point: Literally everything to do with dragons ever. I mean holy cow , does WoW become an R rated game when it comes to dragons.

Dragons and Draenei.

Edit: Even in WoW peons really feel like slaves and not much else.

[anon95961490]

@Kordana-wyrmrest-accord

So with that being said; I really don’t care if the Orcs use peons as slave labour.

Well my opinion here in this topic and elsewhere isn’t necessarily to say “slave labor” , or “bad things”, should never be depicted or whatever, it’s more in the how is it depicted that concerns me in a lot of stuff. And while I do think the depiction of such things are worthy of discussion in my thread, it was not the sole purpose for my creation of it. Part of the purpose is still to explore what we know, lore wise, about the Peon, his origin, and his usage in the Horde.

@Nioruf-thrall

which shouldn’t be possible if he was a slave since he would be, you know, enslaved.

This is actually a pretty wrong assumption to make, as we know that historically in slave societies there could actually still be a division of rank and status within the class of slaves themselves. For Instance in the Roman Empire there were slaves who, through their masters ‘permission’, basically owned slaves themselves. The overseer of laboring slaves could also be (and if I remember correctly often was) a slave himself. Point is, someone being “promoted” to a “higher station” does not necessarily mean his position, or former position, is/was one of freedom.

@Kazthan-argent-dawn

Warcraft 2 manual
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401408743511818241/742658149735071834/Peon.PNG

“Downtrodden, the Orc Peons slave thanklessly to please their overseers”

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

@Alternatek-dalaran

d) Kill the Foreman so there won’t be more revolts.

@Nioruf-thrall

You don’t kill the foreman, you challenge him to a fight and beat him up until he surrenders.

Yeah. I didn’t remember killing the guy.

[Nioruf-thrall (Nioruf)]

@anon95961490

This is actually a pretty wrong assumption to make, as we know that historically in slave societies there could actually still be a division of rank and status within the class of slaves themselves. For Instance in the Roman Empire there were slaves who, through their masters ‘permission’, basically owned slaves themselves . The overseer of laboring slaves could also be (and if I remember correctly often was) a slave himself. Point is, someone being “promoted” to a “higher station” does not necessarily mean his position, or former position, is/was one of freedom.

I actually meant the part where he gets hired and goes to work for someone not part of the Horde. I would think as a slave he wouldn’t be able to go work for someone else.

@anon95961490

“Downtrodden, the Orc Peons slave thanklessly to please their overseers”

That’s also the WC2 era Horde. Very different “management” style.

[Kazthan-argent-dawn]

@Nioruf-thrall

That’s also the WC2 era Horde. Very different “management” style.

Yep that’s also true. During WC3 and Thralls Horde the slave part was omitted. But they are still downtrodden. Differences between the Second War and the Third should be clear.
That said, I don’t really see what changed for them after WC3.

[Nioruf-thrall (Nioruf)]

Yea, the lore is riddled with retcons and sprinklings of implications. I swear I remember something about Thrall outlawing slavery, but then you’ve got the “underground” fight pit that Varian got caught up in, so who knows. I could swear I vaguely remember in quest text somewhere about different problems they’re having at some outpost, one of them being gold shipments are being intercepted so they haven’t been able to pay the peons. But those are all vague 'I-think-that-happened’isms so I can’t argue that much has changed for peons in the last 15 years.

[Izhkarl-khazgoroth (Izhkarl)]

Its my understanding (I have no sources) that peons didn’t exist prior to the formation of the horde. They were the weaklings/runts considered too weak to survive the hostile environments of their home world and contribute to the well being of the tribe, so were exposed to the elements at birth. With the formation of the horde it was found they could provide valuable service as labour and so were tolerated and for their part happy to serve and make their contribution to the horde.

During one of the outpost quests a tauren leader makes a comment to the effect that saving peons lives was probably a waste of time. Suggesting that low status/worth of peons is shared by other members of the horde. While they might not be considered full citizens, it is another matter to say that they are slaves without any rights.

@Nioruf-thrall

I swear I remember something about Thrall outlawing slavery, but then you’ve got the “underground” fight pit that Varian got caught up in, so who knows.

Since they are ‘underground’ its reasonable to assume that they aren’t actually legal. Their existence doesn’t cancel the existence of antislavery laws. Being a practicing Warlock in Orgrimmar is still technically punishable by death as far as I know.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

Ancient Valyria.

[Gornur-nerzhul (Gornur)]

@Alternatek-dalaran

d) Kill the Foreman so there won’t be more revolts.

We didn’t kill the foreman, we invited him to the peon part and then challenged him to the fight. After beating him, we spared his life, to quote Kiro, “Show him the true strength of the Horde, but also the honor that comes with showing mercy.”