When will you fix the M+ meta


Just for the record, at the top end of rated, the meta is just as restrictive.

Currently the real problem in PVP is that the meta extends down enough to prevent certain specs from exceeding about 2000, while the gear doesn’t top out until 2400. That’s even more severe than the problem that M+15+ where the meta matters still gets you more gear - and therefore, due to titanforging, better gear.

TLDR: Strict meta is unavoidable, but Blizz ought to balance high enough to prevent the meta from affecting gar acquisition.

(Argorwal) #20

Which they’ve done for mythic+

Up through +10 When gear tops out you can take any spec or group of specs.

(Cyantific) #21

Yeah it’s not as if Infested mobs being randomly on non-CC able mobs or the tons of bugs and inconsistent behaviors with Infested were the issue with that affix.

(Bobbydígital) #22

that’s fine for 10s, but that’s like doing a heroic

maybe it’s unrealistic but i think they can do a better job here.

i shouldn’t feel gross not taking certain classes to high keys.

(Cyantific) #23

You’re not doing what people who focus on M+ would consider high keys.

(Bobbydígital) #24

that’s fine

necrotic is still a joke with a boomkin. all keys are more attractive with a rogue to skip trash.

that feeling is relevant in any key above a 10


I agree it’s okay up through +10.

The problem with, starting in season 2 I believe, doing more than +10 gives you extra pieces of gear and thus extra chances at titanforging, so in fact you get significantly better gear from, +20 than +10 - if you’re a spec that can do +20.


You do realise that a death skip is the safest way because the robots see through stealth, right? Either way the tank is suicide running - and I’d hate to be in a pug that is trying to just have the tank pull the lot while the others skip it by staying out of combat. Only takes one mine to ruin it all.

(Aewendil) #27

Why do people always say this? Shroud works just fine at key levels under 15 too. The meta is the meta because meta classes are better for dungeons, and that is just as true at any key level.


You’re right. I’ll rephrase my statement. Some people seem to think that they need the meta to push their key below +15’s and that’s not true. Ultimately it’s their key and they can do what they want, but anytime I see a “+9 need boomkin” or something along those lines I just shake my head.

(Corpseten) #29

That was added sometime in Legion, not BFA Season 2.

(Cyantific) #30

True, but it began after 15s in Legion, not after 10s. They moved it down to further incentivize pushing after 10s rather than farming 10s, which I feel is a good change. Rather than seeing people who can do 14s +2 or +3 10s constantly they aim for 14 completions.

(Argorwal) #31

Well yeah, but when things are easy enough it doesn’t matter.

You can class stack normal BoD the same as mythic BoD and bring the best classes to a fight to make it even easier but the tuning is so low it doesn’t matter.

(Argorwal) #32

It’s been that way since Legion.

For legion they would swap what the “highest” was between a +10 and +15 so sometimes +10 was the cap and other times +15 was the cap.

For each case you would get more loot when you went beyond the cap.

In BfA they kept the loot item level cap at +10 always.

(Salmonsteak) #33

Rogues yes.

People dont look for BDK, DH, Ele specifically now.

Maybe druids.

(Aewendil) #34

It does matter though, because there’s a timer. Unless you’re 3 chesting every dungeon, it matters.

(Kashadin) #35

It’s a question of how much it matters. For the crazy guys doing +20s, performance is (say) 50% skill and 50% class balance, because you can assume that everyone doing keys at that level is really damn good and your class utility / dps will make or break a key.

At +15, it’s more like 80% skill and 20% class / spec. Yeah, of course I’d like a Rogue in group, but I’ll take my Fury Warrior friend instead because I know he’s good (and we’ll just take a less efficient route)

At +10 or lower, you’re looking at 95% skill. Being able to Shroud trash or using Blade Dance to cheese something just isn’t important compared to good core gameplay and knowing the dungeon mechanics.


It’s easier for people to blame their shortcomings on “class balance.”


Exactly. It is their key so they can choose to bring whatever they want to it. You can shake your head all you want but, if the tank wants a Boomkin then they have every right to ask for a Boomkin. It brings a really great utility for tanks, among other things.

(Hateoraid) #39

This is the macro level answer. It’s impossible to balance classes to all ‘cap’ out at the same difficulty.

Unfortunately, community perception is a killer. Ion mentioned it at the last blizzcon, it’s almost like they need to overbuff a class to bring it up in the communities eyes and THEN nerf it down. Which is kinda my guess right now as to why prot warriors are so ridiculously OP. They were OP at the start of Legion only to get nerfed into oblivion and become virtually the bottom tierd tank where they stayed for the remainder of Legion. They maintained the same perception coming into BfA.

But.look.at.them.now. Let them be hugely OP and popular for a few months through the MDI, then nerf their DPS. The result, a totally different community perception of warriors, former God’s with less dps. Imagine this opposed to being the unanimously agreed upon worst tank who received a few adjustments and IP off the GCD - they would still be considered garbage.

I can sympathize with you tho, I’ve been running with an Spriest lately doing 18 keys and have been hugely taken back by her dps output. From a utility perspective she doesn’t bring what a boomy would, but from a DPS perspective absolutely competitive to our rogue/DH.

Same applies to ret, I ret keys sometimes for fun and people are constantly blown away at how good ret is right now - a ret paladin will melt reaping mobbs and if the tank pulls around their wings, get ready to see some huge numbers.

However, community perception hasn’t caught up. And until it does, ret=garbage in most peoples eyes.