When it comes to Garrosh I 100% agree.
His story progression made absolutely no sense. To this day I still cant wrap my head around it, nothing lines up. His plot seemed to just be “we need a reason for Hirde and Alliance to fight” at the cost of what could have been a unique character.
Sylvanas? Ehhh…
I actually thought she was pretty evil far before Cata. With creating plagues, torture and horrific experimentation she seemed to always be on the path of the villian.
She and the Forsaken got a pass from Thrall on a lot of stuff the other Horde races would have probably got the boot for.
I’m not saying she wasn’t evil. I’m saying she wasn’t a villain.
I’m not talking about being a villain to the enemy faction; every leader fits that criteria. Sylvanas was allowing the forsaken to do some absolutely sketchy stuff, no doubt. But nothing she had done to that point made her an enemy to the Horde. Nothing made her a villain to both sides.
It’s not until she’s taking her baby steps towards becoming the Lich Queen during Cata, using Valks and throwing Plague Bombs around like they’re party favors, that we really see her becoming a problem the Horde might also have to deal with.
So we are going to ignore her Blackmailing Lother’mar? No she wasnt an enemy to the Horde. But she was absolutely using them and would toss them aside the moment it was convinient for her. Which she did. She was always villain coded, exactly like Gallawix and no one should have been suprised when she enivitably turned into a raid boss.
The Horde leadership and to a certain degree the Horde organization was pretty evil. And it needed its worse aspects to be destroyed and WoW has pretty much done that with Gallawix probably being the last piece of it. Maybe now the Horde will actually be an organization for positive change for Azeroth.
Zerde can’t resist and has to jump in and glorify the virgin alliance and trash the evil horde, because he lacks the reading skills necessary to understand the current conversation being had
Look at them over there. Those filthy Horde players think they can have a discussion about their faction without turning it into the same argument we’ve had for a decade? Not on my watch.
She wasnt an enemy. At least not yet, but she was always coded to end up one. She was never a positive influence and everything related to her was designed to undermine the Horde.
The Horde was a facist and genocidal organization. If this was a real world organization anyone who decided to try and keep the name would be be treated like dirt.
And you downplayed her ultimately becoming an enemy. Anyone who wasnt blind knew she would ultimately a problem for the world.
Which is true. I know this is a fantasy game but Thrall was always stupid for trying to venerate/recreate an organization who was primarily made to cause suffering. He should made a nee organization and let the Horde name rot in the past.
Mmmm!
This is actually a pretty good distinction and probably where a lot of people get confused in this story, but I think this is a good thing to keep in mind in making sense of it.
The alliance don’t go about trying to genocide multiple peoples. The Horde has been known to do that. The alliance has good leaders. The horde has more villains.
the Horde had good leaders too it is Blizzard with control of the narrative where they just use Horde leaders to create filler villains whenever they run out of cosmic plot.
I wouldn’t call pre-Cata Sylvanas evil at all really. Pragmatic, yes, maybe anti-hero, but there’s a reason she was without a doubt the most popular Warcraft character and a flagship one for years. While the Lor’themar story did showcase her as being more in line with evil, it’s important to remember that it was part of the Shattering collection of short stories, so already they were trying to shift the narrative. Not to mention if I’m remembering correctly, it wasn’t written by an in-house author, but rather it was a fanfiction submitted as a part of a contest that won and was made at least somewhat canon.
Even in Cataclysm stuff is all over the place, Silverpine is an emotional rollercoaster of fun characters you like, followed by said characters kicking a puppy. It’s why they likely chilled out with portraying her as often for a long while until Legion.
On this note, I dont think the type of government per say is what make a nation “good or evil”(with the exception of facist and authoritarian regimes). Element know Democracy has recently show how awful it can be. I would say ultimately its the leaders that will steer nation to doing horrible thing.