When to use arcane surge?

Classes Mage
21

It’s not fear making me avoid it, it’s aggravation. Besides, with my build I don’t need the charges. Once I am at 4 charges I stay at four charges virtually 100% of the time. Only bad rng with Anomaly giving me lots of Time Warps and no Clearcasts or Surges makes me have to drop my charges and that’s exceedingly rare. I’ve been able to sit on a dummy for 10 minutes without dropping charges with judicious use of Evocation and Mana Gem.

Another reason I’m not taking it is because then I have to give up Chrono Shift and I value that utility immensely. I also just plain resent TotM because it was forced onto us in Shadowlands at the cost of Charged Up which was just plain better as utility. Charged Up was off the gcd, didn’t require a target/cause aggro, and didn’t have a cast time. Admittedly, TotM is less bad in Dragonflight now that it’s instant cast, but I’d rather just not have to deal with it at all.

I can open with two Arcane Blasts, and (as much as it disgusts me to have it) an Arcane Orb and I’m at 4 charges, without ever really having to worry about dropping them. I don’t use Barrage outside of aoe except in very rare circumstances (as mentioned above), or if I have to move and need a boost from Chrono Shift. None of that Harmony/Spark BS for me.

Like I said, I’ve resigned myself to being “bad”, because being “good” isn’t “fun” for me.

23

specced into arcane familiar, enlightened, mana gem, along with harmony and echo capstones, my burst sequence is: orb, 4x AM, Surge, AB/use mana gem macro, RS/ToTM macro, 4x AB, Barrage. The cast time of the extra AB after the surge, along with the gem and the cast time for RS means the ensuing burst can be done above the enlightened threshold. Stacking mastery, this sequence gets you back to full mana at the end of the sequence (because of the mana regen buff), along with at least 2 clearcast procs. This will carry me into a 2 orb, followed by 3 (or 4 if i get the time anomaly buff) series of clearcast, 2 AB, all above the enlightened 70% mana damage buff threshold. This carries into the miniburst RS/TotM phase of 4AB Barrage, at which time I go into conserve mode to get mana back up above 70%. I can do this all day long without need for evocation.

1 Like
24

That’s a mood. Every time I think of trying to sign up for a raid for the past few expansions, I think about the talents I don’t enjoy if I want to play “well” and say screw it, it’s more fun to quit before I start.

Just sucks because on the whole, mage’s baseline toolkit is still my favorite, so there’s not really anything to switch to.

1 Like
25

Plaay demon hunter then, you seem more like a simple demon hunter kinda guy

26

No thanks. I never leveled my DH past Legion. On the other hand I’ve played Arcane as my main for almost 18 years. Over the years I’ve seen first hand all of the iterations of Arcane and the Kyrian Harmony build that SL spawned has been the only one I couldn’t stomach.

The only thing I am trying to do here is advocate against making that play style mainstream which is what they’re trying to do again in DF. It’s fine for it to be a viable build, just not the only one.

27

I wish theyd double down. Pve is too simple and basic for me which is why i usually dont do it. Complexity is the best thing wow has to offer.

28

And I am here to confidently tell you that you’re very much in the minority on this.

29

You don’t say if you ever get to a point where you absolutely need evocate, but I’m guessing not, so drop them. Also, you could chuck Chrono Shift, no damage there, and impetus (the chance of proccing over 7 AB is barely 50%). For these 4 points Cascading power, the arcane harmony capstone and charged orb will boost your dps considerably. You barrage whenever you get 2 orbs off cd, and use a clearcast 2 AB rotation as long as you have clearcast up. I use a variation of this, and have a decent output as measured on the beta. PS - stack mastery. Good luck.

30

I appreciate that you’re trying to help, really I do, but it’s wasted on me. I don’t want to be good at playing Arcane the “right” way, because playing the “right” way is not fun for me.

Sorry I thought I mentioned it, but I may have been remembering another similar post. I absolutely do Evocate and use Mana Gem. I couldn’t sustain staying at 4 charges virtually indefinitely without them. The only time I ever Barrage during single target dps is when I have a streak of too many Time Warp procs from Anomaly and not enough Clearcast or Surge procs. Outside of that, Barrage is only for cleave, aoe, or dps on the move for me (also if I have Chrono Shift it’s a way to get a speed boost and snare a target).

Also, you could chuck Chrono Shift, no damage there, and impetus (the chance of proccing over 7 AB is barely 50%).

I find the utility of Chrono Shift valuable, but I can suffer without it for more dps. In this case I’d give up Chrono Shift to take Touch of the Magi. I have a version of my build where I do just that (I know you’re probably all like "wtf dude! why wouldn’t you already have TotM??!!). But I’d rather not have to take Touch of the Magi at all if I am honest. I don’t like the “burst window” style of play that Shadowlands introduced. I was perfectly fine with just popping a nice, instant, off the gcd, Arcane Power and calling it good.

As for Impetus, because I want nothing to do with Radiant Spark or Arcane Harmony, I look for other places to get more dps, even if it’s very little. This is why I take Impetus and Arcane Familiar (now you’re probably saying "wtf dude! why are you taking Arcane Familiar?!). Since I stay at 4 charges nearly 95% of the time, Impetus is simply a 10% chance to proc 10% more damage for 10 seconds. As we are all aware, Arcane Familiar improves dps only very little (about 1.5% from my testing), but it’s the only option available to me that can increase my dps by any amount, that doesn’t require me to play in a way I don’t find fun.

The Radiant Spark/Arcane Harmony playstyle is not fun for me. I also don’t like using Arcane Orb so I avoid taking Charged Orb and Orb Barrage. I am well aware that I am gimping myself. But the alternatives are either to play in a way I don’t enjoy, or simply stop playing the game altogether.

As Garrosh said, and I am fond of quoting, “time’s change.” I get that. But that doesn’t mean I have to play in a way I don’t enjoy. This mage has been my main since 2004 (though he started out as a Human Female until we got Void Elves). I have no desire to switch mains, or play Frost or Fire. I am either going to play Arcane in a way I find fun, or I am not going to play WoW anymore. It’s really that simple.

I can’t help that Blizzard changed things so dramatically for Arcane in Shadowlands. But I also don’t have to do something I don’t enjoy. I’d rather ask for changes to be made so the playstyle I enjoyed can exist again alongside the Spark/Harmony meta. I don’t want to take away other people’s enjoyment. I just want to get back the enjoyment I already had that was taken away with Shadowlands.

Until then I’ll play Arcane my way, stay out of raids and mythic+, and do my best not to let my mediocrity impact other players’ fun.

3 Likes
31

Of course. Wow players are lazy people. thats why they play wow

32

You do realize you’re one of them, right? :joy:

33

If you take Arcane Familiar, the Arcane Harmony capstone, and charged orb, by weaving in a Barrage whenever 2 orbs are off cd (or one with 3 or more mobs) the damage increase is significant with no change to your playstyle.

34

Although Harmony synergizes well with the burst cycle, using Abar and then orbs to regain charges is a dps gain even if you don’t use burst playstyle. The hidden benefit of adding this to your rotation is the mana gain you get from the barrage. I should mention that IMHO, Arcane Familiar is a MUCH better choice than evocation, because with proper management , you can stay above the 70% enlightened threshold for a 6% dmg buff, at least for most of the rotation.

35

Enlightened has lost a lot of its value with the introduction of Arcane Surge because you will now be below the 70% mana threshold during each of your major burn phases since AS dumps all of your mana.

Again, it feels like one of those unintended consequences that whoever was designing these trees simply didn’t bother taking into account either because the trees were rushed and given low priority or the devs in charge had no idea what they were doing. Probably a heady mixture of both.

1 Like
36

By inserting a (use mana gem/AM or 0 charge AB) macro between the surge and the RS/TotM, the combination of the stacked mastery recharge rate, the arcane surge recharge rate, and the enlightened recharge rate along with 25% mana from the gem means that sufficient time will have passed for the RS/TotM burst to be above the 70% mana threshold. I’ve been playing this on Beta for 2 months, and it works. An additional benefit is that by the time the burst ends, you will be sitting at 100% mana with a number of clearcast stacks with which you can do multiple AM - 2AB sequences above the 70% threshold and still be above 70% going into the mini burst. Again, this is not theorycrafting, this is experience against mini bosses on the leveling server. Why else do you think enlightened got nerfed from 8 down to 6%?

1 Like
37

For me this has been the most enjoyable iteration of arcane since Legion (have had an arcane mage as my main or second main since MoP).

It just feels like we’re powerful now, and the complex rotation is SOOO rewarding to master

2 Likes
38

Same reason Frost gets whacked with the nerf hammer at the start of every expansion: they don’t know how to balance for :poop:

At best Enlightened is a minor passive damage buff you get for the price of having to micromanage your mana. Couldn’t think of a more boring talent node, especially that far down the tree and gatekeeping a capstone talent at that. Not that said capstone is anything to write home about either of course.

The only reason Arcane works at all is because of the dedicate player base who go out of their way to cobble together a barely functional and gimmicky build from the terrible, haphazard tools that Blizzard give us and it’s just sad at this point. The talent tree has zero cohesion and feels like it was throw together at the last minute by an intern just before he was about to go on his lunch break.

1 Like
39

The only micromanaging I have to do is to change the order of the filler sequence to be Abar, 2xAB orb instead of an orb immediately after Abar. It’s about as much micromanaging as moving out of fire.