I would like to get some opinions on when leaving Mythic Plus groups is considered socially acceptable behavior. Specifically when issues arise early on in the Mythic Plus group where you then know the group won’t be able to time the key if you continue.
For example, is it based on the number of group wipes from boss fights? Etc.
It’s okay to leave if the group is terrible.
It’s okay to leave whenever you want.
It might be frowned upon and give you a potentially bad reputation… but whenever.
If someone is unable to do above cataclysm level dps and no one mentions a carry before the dungeon. Or if a person pulls multiple mobs during bolstering week.
For me, this is a tough call. I personally have never left a group until the group decided as a whole that there was no point continuing.
If the group leader explicitly states it’s for completion, I would stay until a discussion was had about stopping because I knowingly joined a completion group.
If the group was specifically running to time the key and it was clear that was not going to happen, I’d ask if the group would like to stop & possibly drop the key a level to start over.
All of this is coming from someone who rarely pugs though, so I haven’t gotten to the point I’m fed up with horrible groups or jaded on the whole pug experience. I can’t judge folks who leave though. That’s a personal call that only you can make.
It’s kind of a fluid thing, IMO.
As a baseline, if a group wipes to the same thing 3 times, that’s when I personally feel okay leaving if I want to.
But I think leaving after 2 wipes (to the same thing) is also acceptable even if -I- would wait slightly longer. It shows that it wasn’t just a fluke wipe the first time, and 2 wipes in quick succession is a pretty dire situation for those who care about making the timer.
But, with that said, I ALSO think the further you are in the dungeon, the less okay it is to bail for that same criteria.
There’s a difference between leaving when the group wipes to the first boss in Shrine twice in a row and leaving on the last boss after 2 wipes after spending 30-40 minutes getting there.
When you’re that far in, I’d say it’s only reasonable to stick it out awhile longer. What’s 5, 6 more minutes of attempts vs the 40 minutes you’ve already spent there?
Obviously if no progress is being made, I get it. If it’s come to the point of “okay let’s wait 8 minutes for Heroism after every attempt”, I get it. Leave. But if things were just a little sloppy, try again.
And lastly, there’s the case of a group that’s not getting brick walled anywhere, but is still struggling every step of the way. I find it hard to quantify this one, but if every 2nd or 3rd pull is a wipe or has multiple deaths, I wouldn’t blame anyone for dropping. But like I said, I’m not really sure where my line is for that. Probably depends if I’m in the “Gearing” phase or “FoS / Raider IO” phase of Mythic Dungeoning.
Anyone who leaves after the very first wipe at any point is a massive tool and an idiot, though. 1 Wipe does not kill a timer (assuming it’s not a tank and healer combo dragging out a boss for 6 minutes before dying). Wait and see if it’s a failure that will be repeated or not rather than immediately tanking what is -usually- someone else’s key and everyone’s time.
(reminder: this does not apply to leaving for IRL reasons)
That’s subjective, but I will say that as a tank, I am usually the last to jump ship. It always seemed to be DPS that leave first, not always, but I try to stick it out to completion unless we just cant down a boss for whatever reason.
When your pool is on fire.
leave at any time you want, no one is entitle to your time
depends if the groups says in advance that they want to stick it out even if they wipe a lot
if they dont say that, you can leave when it stops being worth your time. you arent a hostage just for joining a group hehe
As much as I may want to leave I refuse to be the first one, so I’ll stick around for even the worst dumpster fires as long as there’s still a full group. A couple weeks ago a PUG I was in actually managed to somehow time a SotS with THIRTY deaths, I was absolutely amazed.
deaths are detrimental, but not a death sentence for the timer unless they’re the result of full wipes in which everyone has to run across half the dungeon to pull again.
If before the dungeon starts you ask the leader or the group ifyou’re the leader if they feel like they can finish under the parameters you set.
If the group fails to meet those parameters you previously established (speed mostly I would presume) then I wouldn’t feel bad in the least.
If someone had to emergency afk and promised it would only be a few minutes and it exceeds a reasonable amount of time (5 minutes maybe?)
If someone disconnects at all I would immediately leave.
If someone was exceedingly toxic (racist, sexist, or just mean claiming that the group should be going faster despite actually being okay on time.)
Those are a few examples I can give that would make it “socially acceptable” to leave a m+
When others agree to stop, especially the keyholder.
That’s best case.
But really it’s up to you. While yah it’s an MMO, you are still the one playing a game for enjoyment. If you’ve killed the timer and aren’t at the first boss, then sure.
I leave if people are mega toxic or rude, or start calling out people for petty stuff. If i’m in a group with a pile of wipes but everyone is chill and friendly, i just ride it out. I’ve made some long time friends through bad experiences that we just rode together, so sometimes there can be a silver lining.
The run I mentioned had two full wipes, though the first one was close to the beginning because either the tank or the hunter pulled just about everything possible all at once. The second wipe was at the bridge with the guardian elemental. Most of the other deaths were due to the hunter repeatedly screwing up with quaking, along with a handful of random mechanic failure deaths. We almost wiped on the second boss but recovered by using a couple battle rezs.
I think what a few people in this thread are missing is the “socially acceptable” part of the op’s title.
Yes technically you owe literally nothing to anyone and are not obligated to to a cotton-pickin thing. But would it be good social etiquette to just leave anytime yolo? absolute not.
Right when they put the key into the pedestal, that’s when you nope out.
Something being “socially acceptable” depends on social acceptance. Thus, it’s only socially acceptable to leave a group when the rest of the group is okay with your leaving. I think the following cases apply:
It’s socially acceptable to leave an M+ group if someone else leaves first. Sure, you might be able to four man the dungeon, but the general social standard is that you don’t.
It’s socially acceptable to leave a group when there’s a clear consensus that that you won’t be able to complete the key. Sometimes no one wants to be the first to leave, but everyone has given up. In this case, it’s okay to be the first to leave.
The other reasons people have given are not socially acceptable reasons, because they put your own judgements and needs above those of the group.
I’d say when it’s clear that it’s going to take an incredible amount of time to clear or you’ve done say 1 boss and the death count is at 32.
At that point you could say ‘sorry guys, this isn’t looking to be worth it for us for a time/reward point of view, thanks for the invite’.
Often assuming you get a group that you align you, you might decide to collectively lower the key and then do it on that level (assuming it’ll be beneficial for you and then).