When did it become too much?

[Blackstannis-khazgoroth (Blackstannis)]

The feeling of “there is so much more out there” is very important to me.

Absolutely PERFECT summation of the allure of wow!!! Well done. This should be the vision statement for blizzard content creators.

This started in TBC with Badge gear, my dude. Badge gear made old content irrelevant from a challenge standpoint; the only reason the old content existed was to farm badges. No one was running Kara/Mag/Gruul because they needed the gear in there to progress. Wrath only exacerbated that by making each raid tier irrelevant when the new one came out.

its too simplistic to say it was badge gear, that was only one of a combination of factors. Even with the Zul’Aman content and accompanying badge gear, many guilds could not beat Kael’thas and thus could not progress into BT/Hyjal so the progression, struggle, exclusivity and rite of passage feeling was maintained.

It was the complete removal of the attunement process which invalidated all prior tiers content in combination with accessible gear (both from badges and early raid bosses in BT/hyjal). So you didnt have to have a group of friends or guild to progress through all the content with, you just farmed badge gear and joined an established guild that was doing “current content”… raiders became very interchangable, there was no investment in the attunement process and the social bonds weakened because it became easier to restaff a raid.

[Paeldryth-hyjal (Paeldryth)]

If Blizz is just trying be as efficient as possible financially, they why would they not stick with what originally brought the huge influx of players?

It isn’t that simple because games like LoL and Fortnite didn’t exist back then and the market wasn’t saturated with F2P voyeur MMOs.

We know subscriptions went up during Vanilla, but we don’t actually know how many people tried it.

[Xanthak-durotan (Xanthak)]

If Blizz is just trying be as efficient as possible financially, they why would they not stick with what originally brought the huge influx of players?

It isn’t that simple because games like LoL and Fortnite didn’t exist back then and the market wasn’t saturated with F2P voyeur MMOs.

We know subscriptions went up during Vanilla, but we don’t actually know how many people tried it.

Also, back then Blizzard was THE premier pc gaming company. I’m willing to bet a lot of people tried WoW just by the fact it was created by Blizzard alone.

There was no such thing as mobile games. Or doing things “on the go.”

These days people can’t walk 100 steps without checking facebook on their phones. It’s pathetic.

[Amannda-silver-hand (Amannda)]

First of all, in WOW, how can you go about sabotaging another guild you are competing with? Or even sabotaging an individual player?

Really? How about dragging other mobs into the fray when someone is killing an outdoor boss, or the opposite faction trying to force flags so they can interfere. There are posts on this board with people recounting the fond memories of attacking raids buffed with world buffs to make they sure the dont have them for a raid. If I recall correctly there was even a top progression guild that had a lot of players banned for using an exploit repeatedly at one point. You want to know how to personally sabotage someone… I saw a post the other day about what blizzard does about banish/polymorph griefing. Or how about taking a node while someone is killing the mob guarding it.

Also you said that the reason I enjoyed my WOTLK experience had very little to do with the competitive aspect and most to do with my own social habits/behaviors, which actually supports my claim that being very competitive DOES NOT harm the social aspect of the game.

Ive only said certain kinds of competition are bad.

And lastly you talk about a class of people who feel like “losers” because they feel like they lost a race they were never even part of, but here’s the thing, EVERYONE GOT AN INVITATION TO THE RACE. Literally every single person has an equal opportunity to participate in all content in the game and the only question is do you want to or not? What are your priorities? What do you enjoy doing with your time?

This is not true, its not even technically true because you need to have access to a pc and internet and money to play which not all people have equal access too.

A big part of the draw of genre is that there is usually more to do than you can get done and you have many options of things to pursue.

I hardly ever play basketball because I didn’t play in any leagues after like elementary school. But a lot of my good friends played in high school and college, so when they invite me to come play a quick pick up game with randoms at the park I smile and say yes. We almost always lose for obvious reasons. Do i get upset when I lose? No. Why? Because it’s not that important to me, and I don’t spend time practicing. If it was important enough for me to care about winning and losing, I would take more of my own time to play and practice, but it’s not. But I still play with my friends because it’s a SOCIAL experience that I enjoy.

This a great example demonstrating what I said about competition and rewards. Think about your pickup games and how they would change if there was a 1k cash per winner prize attached to your games. Would it still be a nice relaxing social night out having a friendly game or would it change?

[Landcruiser-runetotem (Landcruiser)]

1. When blizzard introduced spell priority and spell procs. I stopped running instances and dungeons once those replaced spell rotation. (I am a mouse clicker and keyboard driver. I can not watch the fight, look where I am clicking on the action bar, look at the buff window to see what procs, and then look where I am clicking on the action bar to benefit from the proc. And watch the fight. Too much for me)

2. The visual graphics on screen during dungeons is just way too overwhelming. ( I can not make out where to click on the mobs or my group members during fights.)

I just quest, farm mats to sell on AH, battle pets. Its all casual play these days.

[Panzeroo-stormrage]

I think one of my biggest personal criticisms with WoW since, say, Legion is how awkward character progression feels if you’re not a raider. There isn’t a clear path of progression for my character and the game overwhelms you with stuff to do and collect.

In vanilla this aspect of the game is much more streamlined. There’s several guides on pre-raid best in slot items for you to achieve. The tier 0.5 set grind is clearly laid out for you to earn. It’s very time intensive sure, but at least your goal is clear. You know what you must do. And in the current game you simply dont have that if you’re not a raider. You just earn random epics by doing random quests and objectives as you go along

[anon26205537]

So I’d assume when blizzard figured out allot of players were in the same boat is when they starting making the switch

I wish I could dig it up, and I’ve tried, but I can’t seem to find it so take this with a huge grain of salt. But I remember reading a post or interview with some Blizz employees that touched on this. I don’t know if it was about the different raid tiers in Wrath or the gear catch-up mechanics in TBC/Wrath or what, but they said that after spending so much development time and money on raid content, something they actively wanted to develop, and seeing so few players utilize it had a lot to do with their shift toward catch-up mechanics and easier access to easier loot.

[Dokta-gurubashi]

@Lindow-skullcrusher

So at what point did WOW (and some other very competitive online games) start asking too much of their players? WHEN DID WE START ASKING TOO MUCH OF PLAYERS? When did the carrot of exclusivity stop being good enough? Is it a change in the attitude of today’s average gamer?

Middle of Wrath, maybe it was late middle, but this patch in particular.

Patch 3.3.0

That was the one that broke the games back. It’s been withering away ever since.

[Abada-turalyon (Abada)]

I don’t get the “participation trophies have ruined everything” meme that has been going around for about a decade now.

Whenever I hear people talking about receiving them at best they consider them little mementos, like a photograph. At worst they are just junk you throw out within the next month.