To be fair, we’ll probably never know when it comes to designing talents Blizzard isn’t pragmatic.
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Sweet, another one of these! Let’s begin.
If 15 years of forum posts were still around, I’d tell you to go read my posts during every alpha/beta cycle that numbers come last. And how I’ve always explained to people that you need to look at utility and function early on, rather than numbers.
So let’s look at utility and function:
*Bears lose Vortex/Typhoon combo
*Bears lose Swfitmend/Typhoon combo
*Swiftmend nerfed anyway so it won’t work anymore
*New “druid abilities” can’t be used by bears
*Pulverize nerfed
Meanwhile:
*Brewmasters don’t have to split charges between Purify & Ironskin, anymore.
*Brewmasters get a large damage shield (also effective against magic) on a short cooldown.
*Brewmasters automatically apply their active mitigation, basically at all times.
*Brewmasters get a cool new talent choice (that actually has tanking functionality)
*Brewmasters get Clash
The numbers would have to be so crazy to turn this into a bear win that it would never happen.
*Bears lose Vortex/Typhoon combo
*Bears lose Swfitmend/Typhoon combo
*Swiftmend nerfed anyway so it won’t work anymore
*New “druid abilities” can’t be used by bears
*Pulverize nerfed
Look closer.
Brewmasters that have killed Mythic Nzoth as of today: 3,570
Guardians that have killed Mythic Nzoth as of today: 296
(And at least one of those did progression on his Brewmaster then flipped to Guardian to snag a parse on farm 
)
Now, which of these do you think is true:
- Cutting Edge raiders - who are among the best players in the game - understand that Brewmasters are vastly superior to Guardians, and work their raids accordingly.
- Cutting Edge raiders - who are among the best players in the game - are actually just stupid, and you have a much better understanding of class dynamics than they do. Because, you know, you went 11/12 LFR.
And speaking as one of those 296 (or fewer) bears, I can tell you that there are very specific reasons why Brewmaster is better than Guardian on the fight, and they aren’t being addressed.
Just like there were very specific reasons that Brewmaster was better than Guardian on Azshara (like their ability to teleport through solid objects), and those aren’t getting addressed, either.
Or, they just don’t give a damn.
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Here’s a fun Thought Exercise.
In Legion, during Nighthold, bears were the most commonly played tank, although less than half the Mythic raid tanks were bears.
This was so unacceptable to Blizzard that they outright removed a class ability (Mark of Ursol). Not nerfed it, just ripped it out of the game. Which was (and remains) unprecedented, to do so mid-expansion.
For most of Battle for Azeroth, Brewmasters outnumbered all other tanks combined in Mythic raiding. This is considered acceptable.
Tell me again how Blizzard doesn’t play favorites.
(Or you could just ask Ghostcrawler, who openly says that Blizzard plays favorites.)
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I can tell this is a heated issue for you. I suggest you reread my post. I never suggested that bears were as good as brewmasters.
The fact that 296 bears completed mythic Nzoth proves that bears are indeed capable. The numbers show they are exactly as I stated, not preferred or desired.
ya except community perception is that bears are bad. I was forced to DPS as boomkin even though I play guardian in M+ 5 days a week. I hate boomkin. My guild hired a warrior tank rather than let me tank when they needed a replacement.
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Go tank Mythic Nzoth as a bear, and then come back and tell me things are okay.
Or heck, FIND me a bear who’s tanked Mythic Nzoth, who thinks things are okay.
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So, you are just completely ignoring what I said for the purposes of keeping your zeal?
It is a fact that bears killed mythic Nzoth. It is a fact that bears have timed +29 keys. Which means by definition they are “capable”. For your reference capable means: “having the ability, fitness, or quality necessary to do or achieve a specified thing.”
They can and have done the highest levels of tanking in the game, which means they are capable. That does NOT mean they are good. I did NOT state they are good.
It is also fact that Bears are under represented in Mythic Nyalotha as well as mythci+ 20 and above. Which means they have at the very least very bad perception, and likely are just not as good.
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I could yank somebody’s teeth out, if they’re willing to put up with a lot of blood and pain. Does that make me a capable dentist?
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I could drive my car with no breaks or bad breaks, as I’m sure some people might be willing to do. Does that mean my broken car is capable?
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Perhaps you lack a dictionary… And or google?
“Dentist - a person qualified to treat the diseases and conditions that affect the teeth and gums, especially the repair and extraction of teeth and the insertion of artificial ones.”
Pulling teeth does not make you a dentist. It does make you CAPABLE of pulling teeth.
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These guardian druids who are doing +29 keys, were they doing high level keys a patch ago?
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Or better yet, two patches ago…
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I just don’t get why the Druid forum never has any shortage of loud-mouths saying, “I’m posting from a position of total ignorance, since I don’t do difficult content on a bear (or even at all), but I’m going to use the accomplishments of people better than me to argue with those more accomplished people who are better than me.”
It’s really astonishing. Other forums don’t have this garbage.
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The reason why I asked is because of how corruption has changed things. You get a temporary power boost unlike anything that’s been released so far in the expansion for a low cost.
Take that away, are they able to still perform at that peak level.
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No one was.
They were completing 24’s when the top completions were 25’s. Which puts them right where they already were, capable but not desirable.
To put it more clearly for mythic+, during seasons 1, 3, and 4 bear tanks have been under represented but completing the highest content in game.
During season 2 they were behind in mythic+, the top bears I could find in a casual search were doing 22’s when Warriors were doing 26’s. Also looking at season 2 tank leaderboards, the first bear appears at 145, before that there was only 8 Paladins, 3 DK’s, 1 DH, 3 Monk, which suggests being behind in season 2 had more to do with OP Warriors than anything else.
I didn’t have time to look into raiding. But completing the top content in 2 out of 3 patches without corruption, suggests its not purely corruption keeping them afloat.
This doesn’t mean they are in a good spot. It also doesn’t mean they cannot do content.
I’d tank Mythic Raids if somebody would let me as bear. I searched for a month for a Mythic guild and nothing. Joined a crap “heroic guild” that was worse than pugs. Now I am forced to tank on a blood dk just to see end game that is at my skill level.
Being a weak class also impacts if people will allow you to tank the raids.
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I don’t think you understand the definition of the word capable. Or you simply are misusing it by accident. Or perhaps you mean a broad generalization of capable to which you apply any number of meanings, and which I cannot possibly answer.
Is your car capable of doing what?
Passing inspection? No.
Moving? Yes.
Stopping on demand without interference? No.
Capable doesn’t mean good. Capable doesn’t mean satisfactory. In this instance Bears are capable of completing the highest content. But being capable can be used as an excuse not to address something. It can absolutely be used as a scapegoat by Blizz to not address Bears.
I wasn’t arguing capable. But idk you are stuck on this word. Druids need buffs regardless of the definition of the word capable. This dictionary battle you started has even less to do with the core problems of the druid class than going to Wendys for a burger.
But anyway when I googled the definition of “Capable” I got this: “able to achieve efficiently whatever one has to do; competent.”
Notice the word “efficiently”. So to be capable you must both be “able” and “efficient”. Now can we stop arguing about dictionary definitions and recognize that druids need huge buffs to correct their issues. Thanks.
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I didn’t reply to you. I replied directly in response to someone else using that word.
Edit: Unless you are the lock, in which case yeah look back at your analogy. But yes we can argue semantics simply because you and others fail to acknowledge that people are performing a the highest level.
I have repeated that the class is not desired. I have repeated that the class is not as good. At this point I think you and others here just want to see what you want from what you read.
If guilds are denying you solely because of the spec you play it’s probably a bad guild.
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