Unfortunate for them. xD I love my survival hunter alt.
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Ironically, I view it the opposite way. I think they can, and there are plenty of ideas within the community as to how to do it as well (can link a few 4th spec idea threads in regards to SV specifically if you want). But I don’t think it is a matter of can’t make an interesting ranged spec, it’s that they would rather make more melee.
The opposite way of say they can’t do it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense to me. If that were true, I doubt it would stop them from trying in the first place to say the least haha
I hated Survival (melee) when it came out. I’m leveling one right now just because I have one of all 24 DPS classes leveled to full, and …
… I’m having incredible fun with it. Also with Demo lock, which is being discussed here.
To the extent, in fact, that I’m considering switching from mage to one of those two classes for next tier.
What only a few people are talking about here is that the MDI game affects a fraction of a percent of the population of WoW. To be frank with a lot of people in this thread (including myself), you/we aren’t that talented. You can pretend to be, if you wish.
The MDI doesn’t just x-out Survival hunters. All but 2-3 of the 24 DPS classes get benched in that case.
But give me five good players, and I’ll put them in the worst tank spec, the worst heal spec, and the three worst DPS specs for that week’s particular affixes, and they will be able to time all dungeons at +15. There isn’t a single non-viable spec in the game for any PvE content. The discussion of what’s viable at the top of the MDI/world-first level is like a bunch of guys sitting around on a MLB baseball forum talking about what you shouldn’t do at your church league softball game.
Also, if your comeback to this is “well, my time is valuable, so I expect to run with all meta classes to make my dungeon runs go as fast as possible,” save it. You can’t dictate their game any more than they can dictate yours. If you think you can three-chest everything up to the 25 level, first of all I probably don’t believe you, and second, you’re not pugging those anyway. You already have a team.
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Well they better step up their game. They can milk their audience now, but competition in this era going to be something else for gaming unlike 2000s and 2010s era provided. I’m actually looking forward for it.
I do too 
Well they gotta decide on how on to make the current class specs appealing in all factors and not just let one of them rot. However in their current condition now I am not sure if they could produce another class or spec entirely. They back themselves into a corner badly to the point they’re left on limited supplies.
QFT
“Is Survival a bad spec? No, everyone is just stupid!”
Are the MDI groups also dumb and unaware of Survival’s uncapped AoE strength when they bring MM instead? Or, perhaps, Survival’s strengths aren’t good enough to overcome its weaknesses and it is, in fact, the inferior M+ choice.
Survival’s unpopularity strongly suggests that not many people want a melee Hunter.
There is no meaningful improvement that doesn’t involve being ranged.
Why would I get mad about his comment? There are always some people naive and uninformed enough to think Survival is a popular spec and aside from that he didn’t actually post any argument, so what’s there to be mad about?
Actually, melee Survival is not only badly executed but a bad idea to start with.
Press (X) to doubt.
If they made the group they are, in fact, allowed to exclude whoever they want from it.
Sure, every spec is viable. But if you pile on the melee DPS in your M+ groups you’re going to have more trouble and it’s going to take more effort. Why take an SV Hunter and use a limited melee spot when good MM Hunters are a dime a dozen? It takes minimal time and effort for a group to ditch the SV Hunter and get an MM Hunter and that will likely make their M+ run go better because the melee space can be devoted to a spec that’s actually uniquely useful. People aren’t wrong for making that call.
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Doubt away.
You’re not allowed to dictate other people’s fun whether you made the group or not.
Sure, they’ll need to join another group if you won’t take them, or make their own, but what I’m talking about is specifically the bullying attitude the WoW community has taken against people who have more fun playing non-meta specs. I tried to say this clearly the first time: Most of the people in this thread and on this site aren’t good enough to worry about what meta is or isn’t, and the community would be the better for it if more gamers were honest with themselves about their own capabilities.
Instead, the debate has been leveraged against those who fail to comply with whatever the truly elite players are doing on elite levels. In the process, the wish-they-were-as-good-as folks have to go abstract to make the argument … i.e., success isn’t really success unless it’s 100 percent optimal.
That’s a really self-destructive attitude to have about oneself. I’ve talked about this before in other threads, but I play two sports (golf and bowling) at a decently competitive level, and occasionally this same attitude creeps into those sports, around the issue of equipment choice. In golf, the number of people who play Titleist Pro V1X balls is about 10 times higher than the number of people who should be playing them. They’re made for golfers with the talent to shape shots and control their spin rates; the vast majority of amateurs would be better off playing a mid-range Srixon or even a Volvik, or a half-dozen other makes. But they’ll pay three times the cost for a Pro V1X because that’s what the “meta” is for golf.
Same for bowlers, a lot of whom possess the maddening trait of purchasing a new ball just about the time they learn how to manipulate the ones they already have.
Our classes and specs in WoW are our equipment. They are tools. Nothing more. What determines success or failure is the skill of the player using them. I’ve seen so many bad Fire mages and Balance druids this xpac it makes my head hurt.
p.s.: I decided to level up the Demo lock first, gaining about 30 ilvl last night. I’ll do Survival next, because one of our Fury warriors is going to reroll Survival.
meta slaves
every time ive played survival i do big deeps
So how do you feel about Shaman and Druids? After all, Feral/Balance and Elemental/Enhancement also display the same on the menu.
That is probably the real issue, most people playing it are just really bad. But I am sure most groups assume when they invite a hunter are a range DPS, having too many melee DPS is a bad tactic.
I didn’t read most of your rambling because I don’t care about complaints over bullying; especially after watching people taking hundreds of downvotes and getting shouted down by an army of Warriors, Rogues, Paladins, and Death Knights on the GD Forums back in 2016 Legion prepatch for suggesting melee SV wasn’t a good idea and was going to turn out badly. As far as I’m concerned animosity towards melee SV and the people supporting it is fully justified. Yeah, sucks for the people caught in the middle, but that’s the nature of making such a factionalistic game design decision.
As crappy as it often is; you are actually allowed to be exclusionary towards people based on their playstyle choices. You’re not allowed to namecall or harass, but no one’s going to get banned because they mocked someone for a certain spec choice.
I’ve also seen bad Survival Hunters (not that I’ve seen many SV to begin with). Yeah, you can have bad players playing meta specs. You can also have bad players playing off-meta specs. In fact competitive players are more likely to be playing the meta specs which makes taking off-meta specs even more of a gamble.
Who knows; you might be in luck because he might end up as one of the umpteenth “I’ll think about playing SV” melee players you see that never actually end up going to do it.
Both those options are far more useful than Survival and even they have issues staying relevant. They also only share a class with 1 ranged spec while SV competes with 2 ranged specs.
And I stopped right here on your post. If you’re not going to read what I wrote, I’ll treat you the same way.
I’m not the one going off on tangents about bowling, lmao.
You can play that in D3 on their version of DH with the class set “the shadow’s mantle” and some other lego’s. It is amazing!
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I don’t think there is much survival hate, there is none around to hate anyway. The 2 times this entire xpac I’ve ran with them I’ve enjoyed there company they pump in fortified. Atleast my experience as someone who runs lots of 14/15s on my 6 or so geared toons
My guild has a Frost DK that absolutely kills it on dps. He’s usually in the top 3 if not the top dps every fight depending on the boss. 
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Oddly enough right at the line “Our classes and specs in WoW are our equipment. They are tools. Nothing more” is where I thought you’re a bit nuts, like saying if my hobby was raising bonsai tree’s, an you are saying the tree is the tool and not the clippers or spade I use, which is dumb, the computer I play on is the tool, the Char I play is what I create with those tools…
If the object of the game was to create a character, I would agree, and maybe that’s what the goal is for RP-only players. But the object of the game is to win at raids or PvP or M+ for the overwhelming majority of the player base. The character is the tool you create to perform a task to realize an achievement. The achievement is not the character itself, but what the character does; otherwise, we’re playing a glorified game of Build-A-Bear. The bonsai tree exists, but it is not being asked to take a next step the way characters are.
I shall endeavor in the future to remember that understanding and applying analogies takes a certain level of critical thinking skills. My apologies.
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when your analogies make no sense ya prob best to keep from using them.
It’s a game the object is to have fun, even in the past by the dev’s own statements very few people run raids (was one of the reasons giving for creating LFR) or do end PVP - it’s still like saying your “build-a-bear” is the tool and not the thing that fills it with stuffing.
being as the game changes with expansions the object of the game is to build the char - gear it, achievement on it etc etc it’s the one they you keep working to improve, like adding accessories to your “bear”… ya prob best for you to stay away from the analogies…
For me the objective of the game is to have fun, but I do that by completing the content regardless of who or what I do it on, how long I’ve had them, and what my potential attachment to them may or may not be. Saying something is a tool doesn’t mean you can’t form an attachment to it.
Seems your contradict yourself some, his argument it’s just a tool with no attachment.
They are tools. Nothing more
If you’re replying to me, our argument all along is we’ve had attachment to our char’s we’ve built.
Granted I would use a different toon for tanking vs DPS but in the end the raid is back to the way it was before I ran it, no changes, the toon has the “accessories” now, I used that raid to add a hat to my bear or a title of some sort.