Morning all, and happy first day of Spring/Ostara!
I know we have some Nightborne guilds out here on WrA, and on other realms. I often look down at Suramar from Dalaran and wonder: what’s doing on down there?
Has the damage caused by the legion been magically fixed? Have the orphans found homes? Is life back to normal, or has the new war affected all that?
My personnal headcannon is that Astravar Harbor is of great importance right now. It’s the closest Horde harbor (save for Zuldazar) to Kul Tiras. I’d imagine there are lots of Horde ships coming and going?
What are your guilds currently doing down there? What are your characters doing? How is life in Suramar City?
I’m not a Shal’dorei RPer at the moment, but I’ve used this in some of my stories with Sarestha. Kinda assuming that Suramar is a near-to-the-frontlines port for the Horde at the moment, and RPing there from time to time on my Horde characters.
My personal headcanon is that only a really select few gung ho Nightborne (players and some NPCs) embarked out to fight for the Horde. The majority of them pay lip service to the Horde, but aren’t in any hurry to give up their lives for them.
I think the vast majority of Nightborne are leery of raising arms against the Alliance that helped them just because Thalyssra’s feelings got hurt and a number of them are even warier of giving up one tyrant for another. Hence, I don’t think Suramar can actually bring its full power to the Horde’s service because of protests and anger from the average Suramarian at swearing blind loyalty to a faction that is essentially the same as the Legion.
The resulting social paralysis means that Suramar, as a government, is mostly incapable of acting.
Your headcanon is whatever you please it to be after all, but I must clarify about them in canon. The Nightborne are VERY eager to get out in the world and prove themselves. They are EAGER to fight the Alliance, and gain magical artifacts in Xibala(They are fighting the “beardlings” as they so delicately call the Dark Iron).
That being said, I fully believe and agree with you that in lore Suramar’s harbor should be a large pit stop for traveling Horde ships, or to ship supplies from there to Zuldazar. I suspect we will see a lot more of them in the upcoming 8.2 Nazjatar storyline.
I picture Suramar as mostly a strategic port city to Eastern Kingdoms with ships going to and from Silvermoon.
I don’t think the Nightborne had much of an army or navy to begin with. Sure they had elf cops to enforce the status quo around the city yet I don’t think that’s enough to really consider as a military force compared to the rest of Azeroth. So with that I imagine that only a few agents were lent to the Horde military since most remained in the city as self defense and purging any former Legion cultist or Elisande loyalists.
Those agents that did go to the Horde military many of them also primarily assist in non-combat or support roles, sorta like that archaeological site in Zuldazar or the island expedition team. As again while they did have their self defense forces, most of that got wrekt during the civil war and the legion invasion. So I imagine they’re hurting on those numbers.
The remaining Nightborne that did leave Surumar outside any official role did so at their own volition which make up the tourists and explorers we see in Orgrimmar and Silvermoon. They’re usually just civilians or more interesting concept former Elisande loyalists trying to lay low. (I’m such a sucker for former criminals or bad people trying to not be a piece of crap anymore)
I too am of the opinion that Suramar is entirely lacking in Naval power. It has a Port for ships to dock at and nothing else. Suramar was a landlocked City before the Sundering, and Bay that was created was essentially one big Nightborne swimming pool for the past 10,015 years and their only watercraft are pleasure craft. I would like to see Kul Tiras teach the Nightborne a thing or two about Naval superiority.
Well Tyrande also threatened to destroy her nation, which in real world situations leads to political strife. But no. That’s just Thalyssra being moody that day. XD
“The Kaldorei will fight to see the Legion defeated and the Nightwell destroyed. Beyond that, we will see where Elune’s wisdom guides us.”
Tyrande Whisperwind
It might not be explicit, but I’ll be damned if that’s not a threat, or at least a threatening way to put it. All Tyrande promised was a violent incursion into Suramar with the intention of destroying the Nightwell. She made no promises to aid the Shal’dorei, and her hostility towards them is very evident.
The decision to side with the Sin’dorei is not an illogical one. Unlike the Kaldorei, they extended the hand of friendship.
That said, I think you’re right in that Tyrande was correct to be wary. I certainly don’t blame Tyrande for how she acted. My point is that I also think the reason behind Thalyssra’s actions were more nuanced than “her feelings got hurt”. And I believe this is very evident when you look at the surrounding context.
I disagree. This isn’t about right or wrong. It’s about perspective. Tyrande was correct to doubt the Nightborne. That does not mean Thalyssra didn’t regard her as hostile. Tyrande was right to be wary. She also expressed said wariness in a way that was obviously threatening.
That still doesn’t make sense. Tyrande’s wariness was threatening, but also correct, according to your read on Thalyssra. But you also state that it was Tyrande’s alleged threat that drove the Nightborne to subservience to the Horde and not Thalyssra’s moodiness, while simultaneously saying that Thalyssra not liking Tyrande’s tone was to blame?
There was a dude who actually worked for a diplomat in the UN who wrote a whole article about this subject, basically saying that in real life, what Tyrande did, while not really morally reprehensible or anything, WOULD probably have killed Alliance/Nightborne relations, or at least severely damaged them.
I think we need to examine both perspectives concurrently, acknowledging that Tyrande and Thalyssra no doubt have different priorities.
From Tyrande’s perspective, the Nightborne represented the Highborne of old. Thalyssra evidently did NOT support Tyrande against the Burning Legion in the war of the ancients. Now, the vast majority of the Nightborne SEEMED to be willingly serving the Legion, at least to some extent. It’s not illogical for Tyrande to be wary of history repeating itself, and to see the simplest solution as destroying the Nightwell, and giving Thalyssra a bit of a threatening reminder of who now held the power in the situation.
From Thalyssra’s perspective, all SHE had ever done (at this stage, BFA context aside) was act AGAINST the attempted Legion takeover of Suramar. She had assembled a resistance, cured her people of their magic addiction, and forged a future and purpose for the Nightborne. To have an underhanded threat of destruction would NOT be received well. She’s trying to make a new path for her people. Her intentions, at least, do not seem to be along the lines of world conquest. Tyrande’s threat was, to Thalyssra, a slap in the face to all she’s accomplished, and would understandably make her wary of cozying up to the Kaldorei. Tyrande’s backhanded threat made the Nightborne understandably wary of the Kaldorei. When Thalyssra found herself in the wider world, seeing a brewing war, it makes sense that she’d choose the side that didn’t threaten her, and in fact extended the hand of friendship.
These two perspectives are different. Thus, their reasons for acting are different. Neither Tyrande or Thalyssra have seen the whole picture objectively (though Tyrande arguably saw it better than Thalyssra did, given the path the Horde is taking the Nightborne down). Thus, given the context of the time the decision was made, both Tyrande and Thalyssra had very good reasons for making the decisions they did. The diplomatic consequences were also logical, as one “faction” helped destroy the Legion, but threatened the Nightborne resistance in the process. The other “faction” did not.
I can back this up from a historian’s perspective, though I have nowhere near as much experience as a UN diplomat. Diplomatic fallouts happen over seemingly minor things.