ssssooooooo like we have right now already it’s just that one model has less variations and different racials than the other
well yes, but it would be kind of weird if you had less than half of the options if you selected a different body type for the same race, so with the KT being so different in the model as they are, I think them having their own race slot is fine.
I’d prefer if the races that could be rolled into core races to be done so, would allow for more customization combos for the players.
Like Dark iron into dwarves, LFD into Draenei, HM into tauren, Maghar into orcs etc.
It would be weird but I don’t think a dumbhuge company like Activision Blizzard couldn’t NOT afford to allocate power into their visdev team to allow for the construction, “porting”, and implementation of all the new stuff between actual same races (tauren/draenei/orc/human/dwarves/elves).
While the idea of “allied race” should’ve been… you know. Worgen, goblins, pandaren, etc. Actually new races rather than variants.
I think it’s clear that you’re someone who really likes mechagnomes, to the point that you actively seek out posts being critical of them so that you can champion their cause. Only in your rush to mount a defense, you seem to have missed that mechagnomes, vulpera, and sethrak were being discussed specifically within the context of faction equivalence.
Namely the idea that Blizzard does, in fact, add races to the Horde based on popular request, while pointedly ignoring any requests made by the Alliance playerbase. Or worse, giving them something that comes close to a race that has been requested quite literally since 2004, but changing it up enough so that, to some, it feels like a slap in the face.
That was the original point of contention. And, no, “that’s why the Horde should have gotten gilgoblins instead” doesn’t address that. In fact, it doesn’t address anything. It’s a nonsensical statement.
I think Blizzard should consider the desires of the playerbase when adding anything to the game, but only so long as they consider the wants and needs of BOTH factions.
For mechagnomes (or, to be more precise, Mechagon mechagnomes) to have been unpopular and unwanted they would have had to have been known, when the reality is is that (for anyone who doesn’t pay attention to datamining-based speculation) they came out of nowhere. Sethrak were a known variable since before BfA’s launch, and people have been wanting them for about that long.
Sethrak were being actively requested since before mechagnomes even existed in the game’s files, whereas mechagnomes were handed to us more or less out of nowhere. Your argument here doesn’t hold up, because if Blizzard added races according to player request then the sethrak would have been playable before mechagnomes were fully modeled.
It’s bizarre that you’ve singled out three races (two of which were added at launch) that have been part of the lore since before World of Warcraft here. Dwarves, gnomes, and goblins are so foundational to the setting that their inclusion was inevitable. I’m not sure why you think popularity would be a factor there.
I’m assuming “when you checked” was early-to-mid 2020, because it was around that time that wowcensus stopped being maintained. Around the same time that mechagnomes and vulpera became playable, notably, so the idea that they had definitive population numbers for them back then is unlikely.
That said, the only bit of information I’ve been able to dig up from around that time is this graph which directly contradicts your “3%” figure:
https://i.redd.it/umicyvyiwb151.png
You’ll note that mechagnomes are the least played race Alliance-side, sitting just under KTs. Meanwhile, vulpera have outpaced every other Horde AR and goblins and are (shockingly!) close to catching up to orcs.
I can agree with this.
I… can’t say I’m surprised that the thread for a race that was actually added to the game is more popular than the request thread for the race that will likely never be playable.
(Not to mention the 5th post in that thread is literally someone calling mechagnomes a cheap gimmick, and they have almost as many likes as the original post. Oof.)
Look, I get it. You like mechagnomes. That’s fine! I don’t, and I never will, and that’s also fine. But actively searching for opportunities to white knight your favorite race (while dismissing sethrak, a race you seem to have a particular dislike for), to the point that you’ll brush aside the topic at hand specifically to focus on criticism directed towards them, is kinda weird, and the nonsensical, rambling arguments and phony statistics don’t help.
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If I responded to every anti mechagnome post then I would be spending hours on these forums, but its understandable for someone opposes this kind of thinking to want to defend against it.
Only in your rush to mount a defense, you seem to have missed that mechagnomes, vulpera, and sethrak were being discussed specifically within the context of faction equivalence .
That was the original point of contention. And, no, “that’s why the Horde should have gotten gilgoblins instead” doesn’t address that. In fact, it doesn’t address anything . It’s a nonsensical statement.
It does though because gilgoblins would have been a more fair pairing with mechagnomes and vulpera were after all the odd race out. I would sooner point to the outlier as the mistake then just make all allied other races as a mistake.
Namely the idea that Blizzard does , in fact, add races to the Horde based on popular request, while pointedly ignoring any requests made by the Alliance playerbase.
Have you forgotten about the long requested high elves? Dark iron dwarves were also requested and void elves and the most popular allied race. Even more so then vulpera according to the wowcensus.
I think Blizzard should consider the desires of the playerbase when adding anything to the game, but only so long as they consider the wants and needs of BOTH factions.
Technically people have been asking for more gnome content for a long time. Many gnome fans were saying that gnomes didn’t have enough lore and weren’t relevant to the story. Blizzard also added gnome hunters. What you are really saying here is that they should only take into consideration some of the most popular requests.
For mechagnomes (or, to be more precise, Mechagon mechagnomes) to have been unpopular and unwanted they would have had to have been known , when the reality is is that (for anyone who doesn’t pay attention to datamining-based speculation) they came out of nowhere. Sethrak were a known variable since before BfA’s launch, and people have been wanting them for about that long.
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Thats not entirely true. There was some data showing junker gnomes and people speculated what it meant.
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It was the same expansion. I could easily argue they came out of nowhere with vulpera and sethrak as both of these races we didn’t even know existed in any shape or form prior to bfa. We could easily be taking about why we should get naga instead of sethrak because naga have been around since the dawn of wow.
Your argument here doesn’t hold up, because if Blizzard added races according to player request then the sethrak would have been playable before mechagnomes were fully modeled.
What argument? I was arguing that blizzard doesn’t add races based on popular request and that they shouldn’t.
It’s bizarre that you’ve singled out three races (two of which were added at launch ) that have been part of the lore since before World of Warcraft here. Dwarves, gnomes, and goblins are so foundational to the setting that their inclusion was inevitable. I’m not sure why you think popularity would be a factor there.
What if the devs decided these races wouldn’t be popular enough to warrant being an allied race? Thats my point.
That said, the only bit of information I’ve been able to dig up from around that time is this graph which directly contradicts your “3%” figure:
This was a screenshot taken about a month before wow census went down. Vulpera had remained in that location as they do for about 3 months without changing. It aligns with what you said in so far as their placement so this could possibly be considered fairly accurate.
I can agree with this.
Glad we can agree on something.
I… can’t say I’m surprised that the thread for a race that was actually added to the game is more popular than the request thread for the race that will likely never be playable.
Fair point. I concede on this one.
(Not to mention the 5th post in that thread is literally someone calling mechagnomes a cheap gimmick, and they have almost as many likes as the original post. Oof.)
Fair point also.
Look, I get it. You like mechagnomes. That’s fine! I don’t, and I never will, and that’s also fine. But actively searching for opportunities to white knight your favorite race (while dismissing sethrak, a race you seem to have a particular dislike for), to the point that you’ll brush aside the topic at hand specifically to focus on criticism directed towards them, is kinda weird, and the nonsensical, rambling arguments and phony statistics don’t help.
Well I mean you were dismissing mechagnomes. I don’t usually go out of my way to do this, but you can’t fault me for defending a race I love. I am also someone who wanted gilgoblins, but you don’t see me trashing vulpera.
…no?
The void elf, high elf contention was literally what I was talking about here:
Blizzard gave Alliance players a race with no pre-established lore instead of the race they’ve been asking for since launch. Players had to badger Blizzard for years just to get them to give void elves normal skin tones, and they’re probably going to have to badger them for several more to get normal hair colors.
Dark Iron dwarves are the one Alliance request that Blizzard has acquiesced to, everything else has been either ignored or twisted into something else entirely.
My point, thus, still… stands?? I don’t know what you’re getting at here.
I’d be really curious to see you explain how you came to this conclusion.
?? Yeah??? ?
I can, actually. Entering a thread on an entirely different server to defend your favorite race when they weren’t even the main point of contention (again, the real issue here is that Blizzard seems content to give the Horde everything they want while ignoring the quickly dwindling Alliance playerbase, which is dwindling specifically because they’re being ignored) is weird. Like, obviously you love mechagnomes and seem to really dislike sethrak for whatever reason, and that’s fine, but this is all very weird.
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I’m old enough to remember Blizzard swearing to the ends of the earth we could never get a larger ‘main backpack’ because it was buried so deep in the coding, it would destroy the entire game if they tried.
…and then they gave us a larger main backpack.
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I’ve never really thought about it, but Blizzard seems to be really focused on all the stuff they can’t do.
“We can’t add major cities to WoD because it would cost a raid tier.”
“We can’t expand the backpack because the code’s borked.”
“We can’t re-add Eyes of the Beast because we, uh, forgot how the code worked.”
“We can’t add player housing because it would be too similar to Garrisons.”
“We can’t iterate on Azerite Armor until a later patch.”
I dunno. I’m probably reading too much into, but it all seems really defeatist.
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They’re just lying. What are they going to do, tell the truth?
- Our superiors are too cheap and greedy to improve the game
- The main thing we design are psychological traps to you keep addicted to a second job that you do for free
- Balance is achievable but would be boring and isn’t a goal but it’s a great excuse!
- We’re too cheap to license good dance moves
- Most people on RP servers could have written better lore in junior high school and that’s why we hate them
7 Likes
…no?
The void elf, high elf contention was literally what I was talking about here:
[quote=“Kazimir-wyrmrest-accord, post:447, topic:949227”]
You said blizzard had been ignoring alliance requests. Thats why I brought up those races.
Blizzard gave Alliance players a race with no pre-established lore instead of the race they’ve been asking for since launch. Players had to badger Blizzard for years just to get them to give void elves normal skin tones, and they’re probably going to have to badger them for several more to get normal hair colors.
[/quote]
Sethrak and Vulpera had even less preestablished lore prior to bfa. In fact next to zero lore. With mechagnomes there was the mimiron mechagnome stuff and the whole curse of flesh thing as well as an idea of what gnomes are like with gnomergan city.
I’d be really curious to see you explain how you came to this conclusion.
You are asking that blizzard should take into consideration what people request for allied races yet you are ignoring the requests for gnome content and the people who did request mechagnomes. This means you must only want blizzard to listen to certain requests or really popular ones.
I can, actually. Entering a thread on an entirely different server to defend your favorite race when they weren’t even the main point of contention (again, the real issue here is that Blizzard seems content to give the Horde everything they want while ignoring the quickly dwindling Alliance playerbase, which is dwindling specifically because they’re being ignored) is weird. Like, obviously you love mechagnomes and seem to really dislike sethrak for whatever reason, and that’s fine, but this is all very weird.
First off. A lot of people posting here aren’t from WRA.
Second thing is that I was following this thread before the conversation started and it was for completely different reasons. I jumped in when I saw your initial comment about mechagnomes since its something I disagree with.
It’s incredibly defeatist. The worst part is that they leave us enough technical breadcrumbs that we can intelligently and reasonably realize on our own, that they can in fact do the things they say they cannot…which in turns, just makes us more negative.
“Do or do not. There is no try” - Yoda
1 Like
I mean, yeah, that’s fair. You’re totally right.
I guess it just seems more and more egregious the more I think about it. Blizzard is sitting on piles of cash from what is quite possibly still the most profitable MMO in existence but sometimes it seems like all they can offer us is scraps.
Void elves literally did not have a presence in the game until they were introduced as part of their AR recruitment campaign. Vulpera already had lore and a story long before they were made an Allied Race.
So would the sethrak. They are not comparable.
lmao what
how does me saying “I think Blizzard should consider what the playerbase wants when adding content but only so long as they consider the entirety of the playerbase” even possibly equate to “Blizzard should only add the most popularly requested features”
like come on dude i already knew most of this was in bad faith but you’re making it too obvious now
2 Likes
To make a somewhat hyperbolic point: if everything you can do boils down to convoluted, incredibly boring engagement systems that aren’t actually fun or creative past the first interaction, then what is the point of all of this?
Yes, sure, to make money. That’s what businesses are after. But other companies (e.g.
SquareEnix) manage to turn profits and build engaging content for their MMORPG that satisfies a variety of players. The question is what is the point to all of this as a player? Build a game that makes me want to waste time on it, not a game that is trying to waste my time for metrics.
In the span of the last two years, one of which was a year of unprecedented growth for the home entertainment sector, Blizzard lost 30% of their monthly active users, so maybe people are waking up to it. They’re telling us so many things they can’t do, and it leaves a sour taste. How about you tell us what fun things you can do…?
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I said prior to bfa. Remember. I could just as easily be a naga fan saying sethrak just showed up out of nowhere and we should get naga since they have prestablished lore and have been one of the longest requested races in wow. Not to mention it was an expansion where we literally take down that god that turned them into naga and face queen azshara. I am simply pointing out the fallacy in this argument. Also. Even though mechagnomes showed up later, I could argue that their zone and dungeon are far more fleshed out that what we see in voldun. Same with gilgoblins and in regards to vulpera too.
lmao what
how does me saying “I think Blizzard should consider what the playerbase wants when adding content but only so long as they consider the entirety of the playerbase” even possibly equate to “Blizzard should only add the most popularly requested features”
like come on dude i already knew most of this was in bad faith but you’re making it too obvious now
I’ve heard this story many times and it never gets old. the whole people who support mechagnomes are merely trolls of contrarians so try to come up with something new for once. No. This is just simply me defending my side of the matter. Tell me then. What exactly where you trying to say if I was wrong about this?
why do you keep saying this like i’d have a problem with it
like, i’m not sure how to tell you that you’re the one who made this all about sethrak vs. mechagnomes
what are you talking about
this is word salad
edit: no wait i think i get it now
what i’ve been saying this whole time as i have already pointed out to you i don’t know how many times is that the
whole
issue
boils down to a lack of equity between the horde and the alliance
the horde gets what is, essentially, an entirely new and much-requested race with the vulpera while the alliance gets a different version of an already existing race just with SIGNIFICANTLY fewer transmog options
the level of work and attention here is not the same, it is not equitable
the horde gets something they’ve been clamoring for which has obviously been made with a great deal of care, while the alliance gets robot gnomes (who have their fans, obviously, but who never inspired the same mad clamoring as the vulpera or high elfs etc., etc.) who can’t even wear pants because the devs didn’t have the foresight or the desire to implement their mechanical legs in a way that wasn’t dumb
what players want should be considered because people pay money to play this game, but blizz has done an incredibly poor job of making sure everyone is listened to
where am i saying gnome players should be ignored or that only the most popular requests should make it into the game aaaaah i’m going crazy aaah
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What happened here
i’m forcibly shoving gnomes into the lore hole
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NGL I think the Kul Tiran male is hot as hell
But that should have been a new customization for baseline humans. Not a “new race.” Horde got the better end of that stick, they really did.
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100%. What is engaging about this anima system? What is engaging about borrowed power? What is engaging about time-gating every single freaking aspect of the game? Ion is engaging his ‘people’ and the rest of us can pound sand for all he cares. I am not feeling very heard or seen this expac.
I touched on this in other threads. The goal should be to bring people back to this game while continuing to engage those of us who’ve remained. That should be the goal of ANY business in any industry. I cannot imagine being a former WoW player, looking at Shadowblands and thinking, “I want to return to that”.
It’s like when you break up with someone and they slash your tires. Slashing my tires isn’t going to make me want you back Blizz.
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Kul Tirans are cool and sexy and I like them, but they definitely feel like they should have been some kinda… “body type” option instead of an AR, yeah.
Also, like, come on, Blizz. The Alliance has too many humans. Let’s switch it up a little.
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