So why’d you even respond, man?
The whole point of this thread is asking what they would need to do to convince you to their side.
So all the answers wouldn’t be cuddles and kumbaya.
It’s nice if you can be appeased so easily, I guess, but saying you cannot be appeased is a perfectly valid response.
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I have to ask… what toy?
I believe people who choose to help Zekhan/saurfang get a little toy. I think its a cloak or something? I would not know. Both my Horde 120s went with Sylvanas.
Im considering my next Horde 120 choosing to be a traitor for the toy and to see if there is much difference. But Idk if I can stomach it. Playing Alliance is more palatable. I have Alliance Alts. But a traitor alt? Idk if I can have that.
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If Saurfang hadn’t needed a peptalk from Anduin (after telling the Horde PC and Rokhan he wouldn’t be returning) and Baine had acted after Teldrassil instead of putting a single human life above the lives of all of those at Teldrassil then I’d have been fine supporting them.
I still wouldn’t like getting rid of the last vanilla Horde leader, but I could have dealt with it and I wouldn’t have supported a side out of pure spite for how much I hate this entire mess.
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Sylvanas gaining limitless Val’kyr and the blessing of a death goddess would have not spelled any good things for the Alliance, considering her ambitions for Forsaken to prosper necessitates the sacrifice of human bodies to preserve the Forsaken populace.
What’s more, Genn has been given zero reason to ever consider Sylvanas trustworthy to be allowed to go out on her own and do things, he more than anyone has witnessed firsthand her cruelty and he was proven right then and there at the end of Stormheim when he saw what Sylvanas was ultimately up to.
Actually, given Odyn prizes strength as you say, I wager had Skovald defeated us in battle then Odyn would have challenged Skovald and flattened him right there, deeming him too weak to be worthy of the Aegis, just like he challenged us when we defeated Skovald and we came out on top because we are the heroes and whatnot.
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It was pretty clear in A Good War that the reasons she gave to Saurfang for starting the war were not her real reasons.
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If both explain what their plans are, especially Sylvanas. It would help cross the divide right now.
Like moment between Suarfang and Thrall. where Suarfang explains why he supported the war, and exactly his plan are with the Allaince once it all over.
Actually give us some details to his mindset rather then the Cinematic Sadfang we have been getting.
And ten minutes with Sylvanas to actually explain what the hell she is doing. Why was Derek important to win the war, what was her deal with Ashvane, and what the hell is damn end goal.
At the very least the loyalist should get the skinny, to give them some level of explanation for this plot.
I mean, maybe? Ultimately this viewpoint boils down to “Sylvanas may decide at some undefined point in the future to attack the Alliance when the odds are in her favor so we should attack first and cripple her so she can’t.”
Sounds familiar
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It didn’t even really end with her crippled though, it ended with the Forsaken staying on an equal playing field to the other races and not having the potential power to wipe out humanity and replace its citizens with undead who would turncoat over to populate Forsaken society.
Because that’s what Sylvanas’s deal would have entailed, I can’t see any other scenario when it concerns making sure the Forsaken don’t die out, because their existence and preservation relies on humanity dying and being raised.
And Genn has seen Sylvanas already attempt genocide before, to his own people, so of course he’s not going to let her have that kind of power. It’s not even really comparable to Sylvanas’s motivations for attacking and burning Teldrassil because they’re not the same at all.
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So when are the Valajar, Odyn, Eyir, and the Shieldmaidens sticking it to the Horde for Sylvanas’ attack on Eyir?
It’s an obligation to respond with Military action, yes?
If you want the Alliance held accountable for Genn’s actions then the Horde also has to be held accountable for Sylvanas’ actions. And the current moment is an ideal time for Odyn & Eyir to strike with the Alliance on the warpath and Saurfang weakening Sylvanas’ position.
It would be hypocrisy at best and plot armor at worst to excuse Sylvanas’ attack on Eyir and condemn Genn’s attack on Sylvanas, true?
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Oh, I get ya.
Then yeah, Sylvanas recruiting playable Darkfallen would totally get me to switch back to her side.
I’d slap down my $25 and Lorash that **** instantly. All hail the Lich Queen!
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Not to mention that peace was sued for at least twice and Sylvanas pretended to be “yeah ok whatever” instead of calling for reparations, genn’s head or whatever and you know anduin would have folded faster than wet paper to get his precious peace.
But whenver she’s underhanded she gets a free pass apparently.
I know how it ends, I was responding to this argument you presented as justification for Genn attacking Sylvanas:
This is basically the same rationale that Sylvanas presents to Saurfang on why they should attack the Alliance first (which most people don’t find very convincing). Why is it okay for Genn to launch a pre-emptive strike but it’s wrong when Sylvanas does it?
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Except that Sylvanas is still planning to kill every single person in SW and raise them anyway?
With infinite valkyr it would have been less convuluted is all.
Also, since when is the horde so touchy feely about bloodshed? Warsong gulch was a thing for years and the nelves traded with the horde even while it was still going on and only stopped with the wrathgate. I thought light skirmishes were just classified as banter
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING could get me to betray BFA Sylvanas, because it’s not Sylvanas, it’s the writers. I don’t even see her as a character in BFA, just a tool they are having act crazy-stupid to push their crazy-stupid story.
So to spite them and their awful story, I’m sticking with Sylv.
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What is wrong with attacking Sylvanas or being the instigator? I thought you Horde players said Alliance would be justified in doing that if we were the ones to attack first in BfA and that would have made for a better story to kick off the expansion?
Don’t tell me that’s all just smoke and mirrors and what you really think would be a better story is if your faction was the more justified one?
I could ask you the same thing, why is it okay for Sylvanas to attack first because “muh Stormheim” but Genn has zero justification for attacking Sylvanas despite the fact she tried to commit genocide on his people prior to such?
And to get into this further, yeah there is a similarity of rationale there, because there are similarities between Genn and Sylvanas, and Genn is something of a foil to her. They both have suffered similar tragedies and have similar personality traits, but where the two differ is that Genn actually sees his friends and allies as people rather than pawns to be used on a chessboard, he thinks far more with his heart whereas Sylvanas thinks far more coldly and selfishly. That’s why I don’t hold it to him too hard for attacking Sylvanas in Stormheim, because it was an act committed over a perceived wrong that he felt Sylvanas inflicted that ended with him losing a friend and other lives, and also it was a gut instinct act based on past experience with Sylvanas. You can certainly argue Sylvanas is justified for whatever reason about going to Stormheim if you want, but there’s plenty of justification for Genn’s actions too, however poor the timing might have been.
And again, your viewpoint seems to boil down to just attacking first in itself is an abhorrent act to commit, regardless of what the motivations or reasons might be, which is weird because too often on these forums I hear people constantly explain away Sylvanas attacking first, whether it was Gilneas or Teldrassil, and that her actions have always been justified and explaining why using background lore.
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There is no fence for me. It’s only Sylvanas’s side. Pure blind absolute loyalty.
Saurfang is a traitor and a coward, Baine is a useless softy that will forever live in the shadow of his father’s greatness, Thrall is a quitter.
How can I align myself with people who quit on their allies during battle? and not align with a person who literally payed the ultimate price and died to save her people?
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Nothing really. But I’d certainly be more sympathetic to Saurfang if he had come with us when we saw him in Stocks instead of needing a pep talk from an 18 year old human, tried to actually win the war instead of hoping that human would kill his WC and cause chaos for the Horde, and didn’t team up with Jaina to kill more Horde after everything that happened in BoD.
Maybe if he had no intention of starting a civil war with help from the Alliance I’d think this scenario where him and Sylv are at ideological odds was more interesting and wouldn’t feel forced into picking one side or the other.
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The Alliance made peace with the Horde after Gilneas in order to fight the Legion. The Alliance then chose to break that peace with the Horde by launching a pre-emptive strike on the Horde despite the Horde doing nothing aggressive towards them. That’s why Sylvanas had cause to respond to Genn’s attack because that’s what you do when someone attacks you…
My viewpoint is that there is a lack of consistency coming from several blue posters on this board in what standards they hold characters to. They like to scream about how evil Sylvanas is on moral grounds meanwhile their own characters commit the same moral wrongs just on a smaller scale or less successfully. I would respect it more if they just admitted “Yep, Genn/Jaina/etc were in the wrong in this instance, but I like their characters so I’m going to continue supporting them regardless.” and didn’t try to tie themselves in knots figuring out how what they did wasn’t bad when it clearly was. You can admit that a character did something morally wrong, and still be a fan of the character. I do it all the time with Sylvanas.
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