No offense, but I find that pretty hard to believe. Heroics in BC were pretty hard, harder than many of the raids in some regards.
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rose colored glasses guy. you did have to cc some trash tho.
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Did anyone realize that this video was made almost 3 years ago? I wonder what his perspective would be as of now…
Few people talk or even reply to a Hello, sad.
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They were not as hard as the raids.
The downfall is that they’re trying to become massive successful games and beat every other mmo in the process. That’s not going to happen.
Then we have micro-transactions, the real issue with gaming in general and it’s worse with a mmos. I’m sick and tired of seeing mmos because they’re always f2p with some ridiculous in-game store to “ease” the grind in some way.
Last we have the content, this is a huge problem with smaller and newer mmos. They just don’t have it. Classes can be really boring to play and the game can be a real slog to grind through(because the game is balanced around micro-transactions usage).
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I think mmo’s tried to break the mold of what a video game was and it ended up not working.
Picture if wow was super mario:
With the current model if you only do lfr it would be like if the game started you at bowsers keep and spawned the axe one foot to the left of you rather then behind him.
Normal is you do the bowser fight normally.
Heroic is you play through the level and do the fight normally
Mythic is simply doing the fight where you have to get him to smash through bricks to fall.
The problem is that there needs to be the rest of the game to go along with this. Past the first two weeks of a current expansion it doesn’t really feel like there is anything but the bowser fight.
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The problem with WoW, fundamentally, is that previous zones become obsolete when an expac is released, and that you can check other players gear scores and ilvl- and the fact that ilvl even exists.
What happened to “bring the player not the class?” It’s become “bring the gearscore and the class.”
Gear should not be such a huge thing and become completely obsolete faster than PCs did in the 90s/00s. Gear should increase stats, yes, but should augment and modify clsss abilities and characteristics. There should be gear from “older content” which is just good so people have a reason to engage with previous content, and feel like they actually accomplished something lasting and meaningful. Don’t make older gear obsolete, provide options to upgrade it via quests instead of replacing it with the next “tier”.
Blizzard failed to walk the middle ground between guilds/social necessity and accessibility through group finder. Needing a guild to do content - bad. Not having incentives (better rewards/more fun content) for social play = equally bad.
Another problem is progression. A max level of 60 is ok… if WoW never had any expansions. It was 10/10 until Lich King and then Blizzard said “uh oh… better slow that down.” A max level of 20-30 for original and +5 per expansion would have been much, much better.
The way expansions were done was also a big problem. An expansion should EXPAND the game, not be a new game that renders the old one obsolete. And not just obsolete but a tedious barrier to entry that new players have to meaninglessly slog through. An expansion should be built upon that original base game, which should also change in accordance with the expansion. New recipes/materials added to previous content, quests/starting zones changed little by little, new “base” dungeons/raids to keep it a vital, engaging, “living” world. Sure, token efforts have been made to do that but who pays attention when rushing through it so they can finally play “the real game”?
These are issues killing the game, that other problems grow out of. Blizzard absolutely has the chance to fix it in Classic and it’s expansions.
I hope they do.
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You do realize that we were talking about dungeons, right? Are you so much a contrarian that you talked your way out of the original topic?
The topic as a reminder was that Wrath dungeons departed from BC dungeon design to a degree that when Cataclysm launched with dungeon difficulty similar to BC people left in droves.
Well, my own opinion is that they also left because Deathwing wasn’t nearly as interesting as the Lich King. But people also cited the fact they needed to work harder on dungeons as a reason they left. Particularly wrath babies.
WoW does nothing revolutionary at this point. It’s all stock RPG and worse single player RPG elements are everywhere. I can fire up Borderlands from years back and find all the same quest givers, challenges and itemization mechanisms. So many games do it and some do it much better. At least in a category of single player RPGs, Borderlands is better than WoW by a lot.
Yes this is the point. By creating natural boundaries (can’t heal self, can’t do much damage alone, can’t go beat those mobs alone, etc) you reinforce the need for community and the game is community-driven. People spend more time socializing and working together out of need. Content takes longer to consume and the entire thing feels natural.
Otherwise when it’s just a single player content gobblefest the playerbase chews through the content long before new content arrives. For all its flaws BFA promises this outcome the most. Playing the slot machine for +15 ilvl is not sufficient reward for subscribing 12 months out of the year. Certainly nobody is going to sit around on a subscription-based game that offers timegated content.
I think a much bigger problem is that as content is put out within an xpac previous content within that xpac becomes worthless.
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Yes that is also a huge problem but that also ties into progression and obsolescence
Well said. One gets the sense that much of the sector that loves to point out that WOTLK had 12 mill subs, and those subs would return if Blizz only did (Fill in the Blank) seems to think that playerbase is, and always has been, a an unchanging monolith.
Life it’s own self shows that to be a pipe dream.
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I played on private servers and thought the game was garbage. And then I heard about lich king and decided to play live servers just because of that. The live experience was so much better, even slogging through the first 60 levels.
Sigh. This new forum drives me to distraction. Every time I sign in it randomly picks one of my alts. Just pointing out the post from Guinran is from me, Perigort.
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I doubt all would, but some would. Which is preferable to the slow exodus we have now. Though I would prefer going back to BC. Oh well… Classic is coming.
Nothing is being ‘killed’, you not liking how a genre is changing doesn’t mean the changes are bad or that the genre is falling apart. MMOs have been getting made since 1991 with the original Neverwinter. Companies will continue to make mmos.
There are several in development right now, and a couple of them being made by some pretty big companies.
Nope, but the FACT that people aren’t playing MMOs much anymore would strongly indicate it.
That’s not a fact. You don’t know what people are or are not playing. It’s more likely that due to the saturated nature of the genre. gamers are simply spread out among all of the more popular ones.
Prior to the influx of games, they all only had one or maybe two places to go. Now there are hundreds, from the terrible korean games to games like FFXIV and WoW. We have multiple mmos in development, Camelot Unchained, Ashes of Creation, New World, City of Titans, Valiance Online, and many more.
The genre is fine and doing quite well.
It is funny that subs started dropping when they began catering the game towards LFR players.
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I don’t know why you would really think that type of gamer isn’t out there what with at least hundreds of millions of people playing games out there.
I’m not picking on just you here, because I see it a lot but I have to say the amount of short-sightedness when it comes to what people think others are interested or not interested in is amazing.
There are tons of people out there interested in old games.