Alright, posting in a Male Human Paladin thread about the Forsaken.
So this is something I’ve been pondering for a while, especially after the Darkshore questline. Back in Cataclysm, a major storyline in Hillsbrad was Warden Stillwater’s experiments in the Sludge Fields. Instead of Val’kyr, Stillwater utilized Forsaken Blight to create undead. Citizens from Hillsbrad were turned into zombies, geists, plague bursters, skeletons, and fleshbeasts. For this, Stillwater’s experiments were considered an atrocity, and he was put down.
However… how do these practices diverge from Forsaken society as it is today? There are many examples like these used regularly, including:
Gorerot, a flesh beast, was deployed on Gilneas City to combat the worgen.
Abominations have been common practice amongst the Forsaken ever since Vanilla, the latest being War Gore, forged from Brennadam footmen.
Gurgoth, a plague eruptor, was utilized by apothecaries in the Undercity to guard Koltira’s prison.
Human Seedlings were considered an atrocity, but the Royal Apothecary Society experiments on humans frequently by injecting them with plague, cutting lumps of flesh off their bodies, or even lobotomizing them.
Most recently, the Darkshore Warfront makes use of geists, skeletons, and even a flesh titan like Thaddeus to combat the Kaldorei.
I’m not trying to convict the Forsaken of anything. All I want to discuss is why Stillwater’s experiments were so atrocious, when they don’t seem to differ much from the current tactics they employ. Furthermore, does Stillwater’s presence in the Legion invasions and the war table say anything to you at all? Or do you think that’s just a goof?
Edit: Alright, I’ve been informed that his big crime was turning Forsaken into mindless undead. I could take it down now, but I don’t want to.
The Forsaken side of the Horde is like the wild west. Sylvanas appears to enforce Horde law, but only does so when put under scrutiny by say, a Horde champion?
So Stillwater was ahem rogue. “Rogue.” You see what Im saying?
Well, considering recent developments with the Wrathgate, and how supposedly Sylvanas was somehow behind that, I wouldn’t be surprised if she gave the green light.
Lets be real here. In Cataclysm she was raising the dead with the use of Val’kyr and deploying Blight against the Warchiefs wishes. She was probably fine with the experiments going on in Hillsbrad, but kept plausible deniability.
She can tell them to do whatever she would like them to do, however, if she was smart enough not to write it down (which, I’m assuming she would be), then it can never be tracked back to her.
I already had this ready to post before you edited, so I’m posting it anyway because I can.
This place is no farm! Stillwater has been experimenting on the humans of Hillsbrad. These monstrosities here are all his creations.
That’s not the worst of it, <class>. The aberrations that have the key to my cage are former Forsaken. Stillwater’s experiments have the side effect of turning Forsaken into mindless zombies. Why do you think he’s so afraid of letting this out? He knows that such a crime is punishable by true death.
I was sad to see him go, at the end of day who really cares about mindless or mind controlled Forsaken if it in the end it means a more reliable way to maintain zombie nation? This is were “free will is the cornerstone” failed.
We don’t see many Forsaken trying to figure out how the Forsaken will strive, this man needs a promotion, not a true death, wth?
What I’ve created here is an evolution! THIS is how the Forsaken will thrive, not through some magical winged fairy sprinkling happy dust on corpses!
(These new forums are still the absolute bane of my existence. It submitted a post I was in the middle of typing because I pressed space after clicking away from the text box. Anyway it seems the question has been answered more accurately and definitively by people smarter than me, so I’ll refrain from actually finishing my post.)
This is indisputably the best possible way of reanimating corpses, though. It’s necrofancy!
When has that ever stopped Sylvanas? The Arthas book implied that the Forsaken that was experimented on by RAS was innocent but Sylvanas didnt truly care.
I agree, I’m gonna mark it in my calendar. Its not the experimentation part that they are up in arms about. IIRC there a a few RAS member who experiment on their Forsaken underlings.
The RAS also executed other forsaken that got captured by Scarlets in Northrend. I don’t think I’ve seen the Forsaken be that cruel since, so I’m guessing most of them got killed off during the rebellion.
Was Stillwater actually punished? A part of me thinks that that was a front. He was alive during the Legion invasions, which you can kinda sorta ignore as only semi-canon, but I’m pretty sure I remember his name popping up in the BFA mission tables. That’s two confirmations in two expansions that he’s still kicking.
I feel like Blizzard low-key tricked the Horde PC into saying he’d get a “true death,” when behind the scenes Sylvanas was giving him the thumbs up.
Between showing up in Sludge Fields, Brazie’s Farm, the Legion invasion, and the War Table, a semi-popular theory on Story Forum is that Stillwater is a character adopted by many different wardens, instead of just one individual.
I’m still putting money down on Blizzard forgetting their own lore and playing themselves with phasing they forgot existed, but I like this idea better.
Actually, I really like this idea. I’m kind of tempted to roll a new Forsaken and RP him as “Warden Stillwater”. I wonder what a group of Stillwaters would be called. A murder of Stillwaters? A horde of Stillwaters?
There’s another Stilwater, a female Forsaken in Dalaran. No known relation.
Oh no we still kill them, Blizz went back and altered them to be former Kirin Tor.
To muddle things for the enemy I suppose. Stilwater was researching, the name could be used by apothecaries researching certain things so if the Alliance gets information on it, they can’t pinpoint who exactly is behind it cause Stilwater is a fake name.
It’s more likely it’s the same dude and his reappearences are just a mistake, but I suppose it’s not impossible its a code name,
If you want to know what special about Stillwater, probably nothing, it’s a random name and that makes it harder to figure.
Or quests where we kill people are never canon. Seriously how many vanilla mobs are still alive in Cata?
Cata was weird in that some places acted as if they were continuing off of prior zone events, while others were slightly retooled versions of the original stuff, with tons of mobs we previously killed coming back, cause it was easier to retread material.
God, I hated that expansion. Hated it so much.
Another random possibility for Stillwater is that his death involved Johnny Awesome, and Johnny Awesome has always been a giant meta joke of dubious canonicity. He looted Invincible, in-world, twice.
Another random possibility for Stillwater is that his death involved Johnny Awesome, and Johnny Awesome has always been a giant meta joke of dubious canonicity. He looted Invincible, in-world, twice.
Don’t insult Johnny, Azeroth would have been doomed if he hadn’t decided to AFK through the Illidan fight and instead actually killed him.