Ion promised that the open world wouldn’t scale with our gear, and then denied it was happening until people showed proof that it was.
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depends on the raid group. Plenty of casual guilds / raids didn’t care. And they were likely wiping due to mechanics rather than a bit of min-max potential.
But progression raid groups every bit counts. Wiping for hours getting a boss to 15%, then 10%, then 5%, yes every tiny bit counted and everyone was expected to know their gear, reforge it perfect, turn up knowing the fight mechanics, and push for that last 5%. But look you weren’t in one of those guilds if you weren’t already into min maxing lol
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Reforging allowed you to take pieces of gear that weren’t best-in-slot and make them better for your chosen spec/play-style.
The scenario you’re describing would only really happen if you already had a piece of gear at xxx iLevel and got another piece of gear at the same iLevel that wouldn’t be better than your existing piece of gear unless it was reforged. That’s a very narrow edge case.
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news flash for you hit and expertise are gone so there’s no need to cap it anymore. You’re now straight up reforging item to the most wanted stats you want.
I like it cuz I can get whatever stat I want. Get all that crit.
Whenever a system requires a mod to be usable, there’s a pretty big flaw in that system.
And for specs that didn’t have static priorities, it was a lot more headache than you’re making it out to be. For the specs that could seamlessly use that addon, it was certainly a simpler process.
To make sure it’s clear, I’m in no way arguing the system was the worst we’ve ever seen. I’m not saying it shouldn’t have existed; it was basically a necessity due to how hit and expertise functioned. But it wasn’t perfect, and there were downsides.
This thread is clearly looking backward to previous expansions when reforging was in the retail game. And when reforging was in the game, hit and expertise were in the game. In fact it’s highly likely the presence of hit and expertise were a big factor in reforging existing in the first place. I’m not sure why you are acting like those stats aren’t relevant to a discussion on the reforging experience.
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Wasn’t saying it was easy. But for min-maxer raid groups that were focused on progression, everyone had mods and for them several mods were must haves for rading so one more wasn’t an issue.
I’m not sure what you mean there. If there were no stat priorities there was no reason to reforge. If there was a reason to reforge, then there were stat priorities?
Sure. I’m just saying it wasn’t much of a downside. For people that didn’t care about min-maxing, just overcap on items. But then that was the real issue right? Having to understand hit/expertise and how it worked with different levels of enemies. That wasn’t a reforging problem though, that was a hit/expertise problem. Just another thing to learn about, and reforging with a mod was a fairly simple solution to it – that only became complex when you wanted to hit them precisely and then further tune secondaries and that complexity was managed with a mod and advised by simmers and theorycrafters – and frankly quite loved by many minmaxers who wanted to squeeze out every bit of secondary stat priority after hit/expertise caps.
I was just thinking about this and as sad as I am that reforging is gone I’m glad this was the lasting thing we got from it
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I think it had a lot to do with the ability to choose stats for equipment rather then roll the dice and pray you get lucky.
i liked being able to convert some of a worthless stat into some a useful stat. getting a piece of gear that is Ilvls higher but has vers/crit instead of haste/mastery on my resto druid feels awful. at least i could mend that with reforging some.
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And while that IS useful, that isn’t ‘customization’
Of course it’s customization, just as having gem sockets and being able to choose which stat gems to put in them is customization.
Or having a variety of enchant options.
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I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s just going to be a group of people out there that dislikes anything and everything no matter what it is
And vice versa. Inquiring for knowledge is great, but time and time again People just prove it true
And the number of those gems and enchants are optimal for gameplay. You can faff around with both but at the end of the day they aren’t so much ‘customization’ as that they are upgrades.
I could hop onto WoWhead now and look up Gems and Enchants. They’ll tell me which one’s are used for content.
If it were TRULY customization, I would be able to pick and choose which gems and enchants to use that won’t shoot me in the foot, and customize my options on how I fight, rather than just upgrading me to do things I normally do BETTER.
To me, customization means I have a plethora of choices that, while vary, can alter your gameplay and still be viable in the content you wish to do.
Reforging, to me, has the illusion of choice. While yes you can move the sub-stats around, at the end of the day you HAD to pick the stats you needed or else you’d be ruining the content for everyone else.
Now, if Reforging let me actually customize my options to where I can still do end content with various different builds, then yes, I’d love that.
Back when we had hit and expertise as stats, it was practically mandatory and that made it problematic. But now? I think it’d be okay to bring back.
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This is the point I was trying to make.
These days, if Reforging could let me have a small number of substats and/or little customization options, kind of like what the Heart of Azeroth kind of failed to do, then yeah.
Unfortunately with something like that, there will ALWAYS be the optimal stat regardless, instead of having a special loadout on your gear that can not only be unorthodox but change your loadout.
Kind of like how loadouts work in some FPS games, some could go for a close range shotgun/melee build, others can do a sneaky sniper build, etc. etc.
If I could reforge myself to, say, do some special things like make myself top heavy in Leech, could mean I use that to keep myself alive since damage reduction for Enhancement Shamans is basically just self-healing.
Or maybe I wanna use gear that upgrades my self-healing, etc. etc.
But because of how this game is built, the true ‘customization’ of Reforging would be sort of lost; the best example are the talent trees.
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If you actually played the game, you’d know that Dragonflight, in particular, has different enchants that do different things and are better for different activities.
If all you’re going to do is look up how somebody else is playing and copy them… well, that’s on you. Don’t complain about your choice.
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That’s not how reforging was designed.
Reforging was literally gear optimization, as I said earlier. It wasn’t a full gear/class/build rework.
You could take a singular stat from each piece of gear and reallocate 40% of one stat to another.
So if leech did exist at the time, then you could theoretically make yourself top heavy. But it didn’t.
Your personal definition of reforging is just incorrect.
“Reforging (also called thaumaturgy ) allowed undesired stats on gear to be exchanged for more useful stats. It allowed 40% of a single secondary stat (such as critical strike, dodge, haste, hit or parry rating) or spirit to be exchanged for another secondary stat or spirit.”
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As opposed to now, where you have to hold off on wearing it until you sim it and see if it’s actually an upgrade or not due to having the wrong stats
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Reforging just isn’t needed. Some classes do truly have a bogus stat, but those are outliers and the fix should be to address the class/spec. Yes, everyone has a best stat that they would love to stack even more. That is basically the only carrot left to differentiate pieces of gear of the same ilvl.