Which he and the pc killed several Horde NPC guards just doing their jobs.
It wouldn’t have worked because 1) Baine didn’t let it happen, and 2) the Writers didn’t want it to.
You’re trying to compare apples to oranges.
Which is why there was another rebellion.
laughs in Anduin
TWO, during my play through. It might vary from player to player.
And only because they were protecting a “secret weapon” that he and the PC were there to stop. Forsaken don’t shed tears over each other when they murder each other for their own goals.
That’s like saying “It wouldn’t of worked becausing there was an I in the sentence.” Makes about as much sense.
Not when responding to the claim that “aiding the enemy is Treason”
Which is the point of the contention. Killing your own Countrymen during a Rebellion is seen as “Heroic” but doing it to stop your Mad Dictator from causing an even greater Tragedy is “Treason.”
Be careful not to Choke.
It should probably be noted that Baine ended up saving a lot more Horde lives than he took freeing Derek. The guy created one hell of an olive branch out of what would have been a disaster of a plan; bolstering the position of the more peace oriented voices on the Alliance.
The Derek plan truly was terrible if all there was really to it was what we saw; and only would have amounted to further escalation in a War the Horde was already losing on all fronts. Great for Sylvie who was simply trying to get the biggest kill score possible; didn’t matter from which side. Not the best for the Horde tho. She is responsible for so many deaths … Horde included.
even if he did taken all the proudmoores that would simply mean that even people like anduin gets invested to dismantle the horde entirely, probably, if he is capable of feeling anger at all.
meaning, more souls to the maw.
But it wasn’t going to work because jaina already knew that he was a weapon and was ready to kill both baine and derek.
Right. From all indications the Derek plan really was solely built around the concept of antagonizing the Alliance; and suppressing the more moderate voices on that Faction.
Every single one of her tactics in this conflict were built around either escalating or prolonging the war. Hell, I genuinely feel bad for the Horde ARs that the only reason she wanted them to join was she wanted more bodies for the meatgrinder; and predictably knew that if the Horde started recruitments … the Alliance would be forced to add their own new blood to the corpse pile.
And I love our ARs. All of them. Even the AU Mag’har, as weird as their recruitment is. They all bring so much more volume and thematic balance to the faction! They are the one diamond (other than the way Gobs were treated) in this otherwise feces covered story. But … even they couldn’t get away with not getting some crap splashed on them I guess…
Ok, show me one instance in BfA where someone other than up until Tyrande (Who got dog piled for daring insulting the golden boy) called Anduin out for screwing up, or taking the position from him at all. I’ll wait.
Which it was, but Baine has always been an Alliance leader painted red.
We don’t know if it would work or not because the writers didn’t want it, plain and simple.
Hell if anything it was just to throw onto the pyre to make Sylvanas even more hate-able.
Which was during a war between the factions, Which goes back to point A) Just doing their jobs.
So should the Defias be regarded as heroes for trying to get what was owned to them after rebuilding Stormwind from the Nobles? And let’s keep the meta-knowledge we have of Onyxia being behind that, just what the NPCs themselves would know.
So, because the Horde are terrible at picking crappy leaders, that’s somehow Anduin’s fault?
IF Anduin ever does “screw up”, we’ll talk. Until then, your argument is moot.
Again, you don’t have any point. Why are you even bothering to reply?
A War that Blaine was trying to End. Just doing HIS job.
The Defias had a legitimate Grievance against the Stormwing Nobles.
Their Actions, on the other hand, was more inline with Terrorism and Piracy then Revolution. If the Stormwind Government were comiting heinous, inhuman experiments and the Defias stormed the Keep to expose/deter that, then yes they would be heroes.
Sadly, they chose revenge and profit over doing what was right.
Say what you want about Anduin, but the kid’s gambit with Saurfang really hit the jackpot. He successfully supported a rebellion that split the Alliance’s enemies in the war; and participated in regime change … resulting in what could only be described as the single most “Alliance passive” Horde Racial Leader composition possible. On top of this, the Warchief position is gone. Strangely enough, if he weren’t just being an obnoxiously nice guy, I’d actually give him more credit for quite literally taking a page out of Tyrande’s Surumar playbook.
No argument from me.
Proves that there’s more the one way to fight a war.
And sometimes the Smarter leader can beat the strongest.
Everyone always saying he’s such a terrible leader because he doesn’t charge into battle with sword drawn and a warcry.
It’s silly and people projecting their fantasy ideals onto someone who just isn’t that kind of character.
He did that in Lordaeron. Humorously, it was a complete strategic disaster.
I mean … kids also a novice who was relying really heavily on Shaw and Genn that early in the War. What were these two idiots doing? Shaw put more thought into having Renzik and the Druids of the Fang infiltrate UC to steal intel then he did advising the Blond Wonder Boy about fighting dirty? I am still not convinced that Shaw is not going to be the one who will leave their Thrones running red with Blood. He’s possessed by Mal’ganis I tells yah! You heard it hear folks! No one survives just getting abducted by a Dread Lord like that?!
So what I’m hearing is you don’t have one.
Because writers.
Which he, as usual picks Alliance over Horde. I blame the writers on that one, honestly.
Which I’m pretty sure they would’ve been executed for even setting foot in the city, but people do things when they feel cheated, and they did have legit reason at the moment.
If they had one though they might have just been those heroes, but history is wrote by the victors.
Didn’t know the Forsaken were the whole Horde at that moment.
Very risky gamble, but ya it did pay off in the end. I do find it amusing that Saurfang was talked into doing the “honorable thing” by him, but Saurfang has become a mess this expansion.
Rip Norrisfang jokes.
And someone was there to put up a safety net.
Less “talked into doing the Honorable thing” and more “dude, I can’t clean up your friggen mess by myself”. I mean, that was quite literally Anduin’s messaging in “Lost Honor”. It was very, I’m not your mom. I’m not here to clean up your messes for you. I’ll help you clean the refuse and bile you coated the bathroom walls with if you want … but I’m not going to do it solo.
At the end of the day, his gamble paid off. His entire goal throughout the war was to simply remove Sylvie from a position of power within not just the Horde, but also the Forsaken. It was never to destroy the Horde… He kept the eye on the ball and took a risk to back the right Horse to get to his objective. People really do seem to forget how consistent he was on that single point.
EDIT: Honestly, if he wasn’t such an obnoxiously pure and altruistic character … I’d actually give him more props for using people as tools to reach his goals.
You do realize that praising an Alliance gambit that turned one of the formerly more popular Horde characters into a sad Lenin analogy, and celebrating the failure of yet more of the Horde’s War Campaign, leaves a really, really bitter taste in the mouth, yeah?
Oh, yeah, Saurfang was totally a Lenin analogy. And yeah, it left a really bad taste in my mouth.
BUT, I normally really dont like Anduin as a character, so I feel at least I should be fair to him when I think he actually did do something competent. His decision to not dive headfirst into Darkshore was the other singular moment I was like … that was a competent move brat. What Anduin did with Saurfang honestly could have come with some very dark connotations and implications had it been anyone else who pulled that stunt.
I’m not going to celebrate any Alliance characters’ competence when the Horde was left with a steaming pile of evil villain fail.
I’ll take wins where I can get them I suppose. Anduin actually not being a rabid bleeding heart all the time and making some competent tactical decisions … well, at least I know now he’s capable of that. He’s horrifically preachy most other times.
I ain’t seeing you name a single time it was necessary.
Because Aliens.
Seams pretty clear he chose the Horde. But whatever helps you sleep at night.
We are all given opportunities to choose to do what’s right, or do what we’re told.
Blaine choose what was right. Defias chose Wrong.
Which is it? Blaine attacked Horde or the Forsaken? Because it was clear that Sylvannas (and by association, those working directly under her) weren’t working for the sake of the Horde. At least not the Horde that Blaine and his father Joined.
Well, that is not to say they weren’t Horde either. Its hard to tell with the Forsaken in their current brought low state, but it is very clear that those that remain with the Faction are those that held loyalty to the Horde and the Forsaken first. Those that left … they only cared about Sylvie.
Man, as much as I think Voss is very forced in her current roll; Tattersail is too new; Velanora is too bare bones; Faranell and Belmont are a wee bit too damaged and attached to war crimes … I really do hope Blizz gives them some serious TLC. There is room for growth in all of them. Room to develop into the leaders the Forsaken need. Room for redemption for the latter two, depending on how they react to Sylvie’s betrayal. It may be wishful thinking certainly … but the naive idiot in me who loves fun storytelling still sees potential.
There, I think I saved us at least 4 faction arguments.