The writers never imply something without it also being true and both Saurfang/Anduin talked about how this was their last chance to defeat Sylvanas and even Alleria suggests Sylvanas is the only one capable of stopping N’zoth.
It’s idiotic and nonsensical after 8.1 and 8.2 but that’s what they’ve stated and I’d be inclined to believe it if only because the writers never bring something up that’s blatantly false.
When questing as a Loyalist, this isn’t really the case. Grunts and Citizens talk trash about Saurfang and how Sylvanas will crush the traitors.
The only indication of any treason/loss of faith comes from the quest where you have to destroy traitor propaganda that’s trying to make more people join with the Alliance/Horde traitors.
The sentiment changes 180 once Sylvanas calls them poo-poo heads with people excited to lop off honorless traitor heads now speaking about how the traitors are super honorable.
Anduin and Alleria make their comments when the Army of the Black Moon doesn’t show up at the gates of Orgrimmar, and now we know said army did win the Darkshore Warfront, and the Night Elf army was also intended to counter Saurfang’s entire Horde army if it had arrived at Silithus instead of making its feint.
Datamining after N’Zoth’s defeat has Jaina stating that the Kul’Tiran fleet is searching the oceans for Sylvanas. You shouldn’t bet on the writers giving something for you to believe is an absolute.
Which turns civilians in the area hostile to the Sylvanas loyalist player.
At zero point in my previous post did I say that raising the dead at Lordaeron was necessary, so let’s get that out of the way first. At zero point did I say that Baine’s actions were selfish either. However, as human beings, we’re capable of a wide array of perspective. It’s a wonderful tool.
In the idea of perspective, they’re both terrible acts. Full stop. Looking at the motivations behind them makes them no less evil. Baine’s motivation was to help the Alliance. If raising the dead and compelling them to do Sylvanas’s will was the breaking point, then Baine should have flown off the handle at aforementioned Lordaeron, shouldn’t he? I mean, some of those raised were his people, weren’t they?
This line of motivation leaves Baine’s actions in a more sour light than Sylvanas’s, for sure. Doesn’t mean that what she did wasn’t plain awful though.
“Waaah, people like a version of the Horde that i don’t and don’t agree with my opinion, waaah!”
My personal distaste for your favorite character has no bearing on the fact that she was a poop Warchief from day 1.
I know you’re too infatuated with the character that you like and your weird hate erection for the Alliance to see reason, but you’re only further proving me right by calling me pathetic while your face is still firmly implanted on Sylvanas’s thick elven booty.
He’s not wrong. Sylvanas has been abysmal as Warchief from the very beginning and only ever in it for herself.
“Let’s go avenge Vol’jin!” she says, then what does she do? She goes to Stormheim not to fight the Legion at all, but to make a deal with Helya to try and gain dominance over the chief of all Val’kyr. Ever since then her only involvement in Legion was telling Horde player-character to go attack this watchtower filled with Gilneas forces.
As a note … Baine’s decision to free Derek, so far, has ultimately resulted in him playing a major role in saving many, many Horde lives. If you take the realities that the Horde cannot be wiped out as a player faction, Baine took a plan that would have only served to further escalate the War with Derek … and turned it into one hell of an Olive Branch situation.
The Derek plan, if all there was to it what we saw, would have only served to at best to further escalate a conflict the Horde was already losing on all fronts. Even if Derek managed to snag a Proudmoore or two, it wouldn’t have destroyed the Kul Tiran navy … but certainly would have suppressed opposition to eradicating the Horde down to the last child. Great for Sylvanas, bad for the Horde. Hell, her reasons for recruiting the ARs and her reasons for slapping down Baine’s suggestion that diplomacy be considered also had nothing to do with benefiting the Horde; but merely expanding the body count as long as possible.
I’m not even pro-Sylvanas and I feel bad whenever I see people try to “argue” against Sylvanas to pro-Sylvanas posters because they’re usually acting like infants, like the above.
To be fair, that’s basically every Cailias post ever.
I mean, it’s either hurling inflammatory comments at the anti-Sylvanas crowd (such as telling other Horde players what faction they should be playing on) or throwing childish insults at people who disagree with his views. (Like the one he used above) So it’s kinda silly that you’re calling out someone else an “infant” for literally mocking the childishness of a post that Cailias made.
Not to mention the dude is one of the few people who actively cheers on the disassembly of the Horde narrative, its’ characters, and the overall integrity of the story so long as it fulfills his personal Alliance hate fantasy.
Either that, or this is one great big performance by him and he’s literally been trolling this entire time. Because no matter how much we clash, I still have no dam clue if he’s serious or not.
The Forsaken have no right to complain about someone from their own side killing them. The Forsaken LITERALLY kills each other for no greater reason then they failed a simple task or to experiment on each other.
Also, Blaine didn’t “Help the Alliance.” He helped ONE PERSON who happens to be in the Alliance. He went against his Warchief’s plan. Sure. But it was a Terrible plan that had little chance of succeeding and likely would of just made everything worse (like everything Sylvannas does).
If What Blaine did was Treason, then Varian Committed Treason by NOT killing Saurfang in Icecrown as he mourned over his dead son.
Obeying your Leader’s Commands UNQUESTIONINGLY is not Loyalty. It’s Blind Ignorance. And when you Leader does something that HURTS your Country/Nation/World, it is your DUTY to do whatever is within your power to FIX it or PREVENT it. Even if that might benefit someone on the other side.
Varian couldn’t really commit treason in that situation. He was in command and giving orders there. He’s a king and there isn’t any higher authority that he answers to.
To be fair, when your attitude since before BfA launched towards anyone who even slightly likes Sylvanas has been:
And
Along with the general attitude of dismissing Forsaken fans as just “Sylvanas fanboys” who supposedly don’t really care about the game/Horde/whatever and the whole waifu meme that pervades any WoW discussion…
The Horde has all been canonically traitors since MoP. It’s reached levels of absurdity and goofiness where it doesn’t hold much meaning anymore. It’s become a joke if anything, much like the Horde’s conception of honor and heroic identity.
And you’re no different, Cailias, with gems like these:
Do I need to post anymore links of you condescendingly telling people to switch faction or which faction they belong on for daring to disagree with your viewpoint? You are the literal embodiment of the toxicity that I recieve from some Sylvanas fans, people like you are the reason I have such a low opinion on people who like the Sylvanas. Not because I dislike the character itself, but because there are people like you who will impose themselves upon others and bully them for not agreeing with your point of view.
You’re just on the oposite side of the spectrum with an attitude of dismissing “mudhuts” and “Alliance sympathizers” instead. But then you actually manage to take it one step further by taking it upon yourself to demand that me, and others, to go faction change cuz we don’t agree with you. I mean, that’s not only insulting, it’s downright degrading to people who have enjoyed playing Horde for years on a faction that was sold on being a heroic monster group.
Not to mention you’ve openly admitted as such several times on here that dam near any negative development in the story and the Horde is acceptable to you so long as it involves hurting the Alliance.
Now in your case it has nothing to do with being a Sylvanas fanboy, and more to do with the nihilistic persona you take up while on these forums. Like I said above, I still can’t tell if you’re joking/trolling intentionally or these are your honest opinions. But alot of what you say on here has historically been antagonistic and inflammatory, and only serves to insult or harass people of different opinions than yourself.
No, but I’d enjoy it all the same. I love a good trip down memory lane.
I don’t demand anything, me saying to go faction swap is me being petty because honestly, I really do love the gung-ho faction stuff. So yeah, I’ll go tell someone to faction change and I don’t really care. I’m not putting a gun to your head over it and making actual demands of you.
Considering that I’ve many times over discussed my distaste for where they have brought Sylvanas and as well as the Horde, despite the fact that I got my second Theramore, this isn’t quite true. But I am always eager to embrace more villainy here and there, and I exaggerate that when discussing Teldrassil or Brennadem or Baine’s stuff or whatever else that has already been discussed millions of times for what seems to have been an eternity at this point. What’s the point of taking any of that seriously anymore? No one’s really here to budge or change their viewpoints anyways.
Yep, and there’s no point in denying it.
I know the implications of what I said, I wouldn’t have worded it that way if I didn’t.