Given my absoute disliking of the Alliance’s focus of humans doing everything and the other races doing little to nothing. (Draenei, Pandaren, Dwarves). I would give up any expectancy of reparations if the Horde could cause a Canonical form of Human Fatigue. Forcing them to be shelved for the next 3 Expansions would be awesome.
They were removed, but the Horde intercepted the boat, captured them and there’s not a single notable name or character who actually survived in captivity. Alluding that they were killed off or the last remaining survivors were slain by the Kor’kron and Revolutionaries in SoO.
Where was this? Tides of War doesn’t touch on what happens to the evacuees after Baine warns Jaina to get her people out. The scenario didn’t either. Garrosh also didn’t have any reason to target them, since he was merely hoping to capitalize on Baine’s message to stall. Wishing to fill Theramore with as many top-alliance brass as possible before dropping the bomb. As far as I can find, that ship full of civilians made it out just fine.
The civilians were never the point, they were irrelevant. The Jaina trying to reinforce the city as much as possible, and giving her plenty of warning and time to do so, was. Which is also why he deliberately turned the front of the city into a meatgrinder for his own troops.
Siege of Orgrimmar shows captured Theramore civilians forced to fight each other while Kor’Kron watch and laugh. They’re chained to metal poles and in cages in the Valley of Strength. There’s one you can save that has a voiced line saying she has to find her children.
God I hate Blizzard. They truly cannot help themselves but to take that one extra little step they don’t need to take to dig in that villain beating just that much more. Its BS Brennadam and the Torture Camps in Darkshore (than god enough people complained about the latter to barely get them mellowed out before patch launch). In contrast, every single even slightly grey thing the Alliance is ever allowed to do … gets invalidated and whitewashed like crazy.
I will never forget the moment I came to realize Blizz put more effort and in game dialogue trying absolve Hawthorne of Taraujo, than there was of the actual tragedy at Taraujo. Taruajo gets to be a “Valid Military Target” for essentially training Hunters and Warriors that could be used in the Horde military, while Theramore doesn’t get to be one … despite funneling vast amounts of Alliance troops and resources into Kalimdor through its harbor and gates…
EDIT: And as a side note, I always just LOVE how Blizz makes the Alliance act super aggressive towards the Horde prior to each major Faction conflict, but somehow all their actions don’t count, are weakly excused, or just ignored so it can be the Horde that actually started the War. For example, Varian literally declaring War on the Horde in the Battle for Undercity in WotLK, and suddenly Garrosh being the one that “started the War” in Cata … because of a SUPER convenient peace treaty that was created just in time for Garrosh to break it in a pre-cata book.
Blizzard has traditionally been very gutless in terms of villain batting the Alliance. They’ve tried putting their toes into that water a few times and each time they chicken out and run away screaming like a nine-year-old with a shark phobia.
As much as I would like them to follow through with these “hints” that someone Alliance is going to be a villain sometime in the future, I expect them to chicken out again.
Then they’ll go back on their efforts to make the Horde better by dissolving the council and making a new VillainChief.
Theramore was a valid military target. The negative reactions from characters in lore come from the mana bomb being used, which was viewed as being dishonorable. They acknowledge that the situation is like what happened in Stonetalon. I love what happened with Theramore. It’s such a significant part of the lore, yet the Horde attacking Brennadam and having torture camps in Darkshore is so unnecessary.
More frustrating is this very “Have our cake and eat it too” mentality with how the write the Horde. The Horde gets written as the villain in this little bouts of Faction Conflict, but are never built up to be a genuine threat. We’re weak, infectual villains that need to be saved from ourselves by an increasingly god-modded Alliance faction … who quite frankly wouldn’t even be operating in the same genre of Power Fantasy if Blizz didn’t conveniently handicap them.
The Alliance literally declaired war on the Horde during the Garrosh period, but it was the Horde that started it somehow. The Alliance literally committed at least two Acts of War against the Horde leading up to the War of Thornes; and were making clearly hostile actions with SI:7 as well; but all of those don’t count for some reason. And the way Blizz makes sure to remove any grey from these conflicts, is simply by having the Horde partake in something so monstrous everyone forgets the Alliance’s involvement in starting it.
It’s bad when players do it, but since writers are saying that too it makes things even worse, and that’s what the final reveal of Shadowlands is going to be. They will probably shame the Night Elves for trying to intervene into Sylvanas’ plans too
Oh please, in both these factions war the Alliance actually has to work with a portion of the Horde otherwise it would lose! Back when we were dealing with Garrosh he somehow got his hands on the Focusing Iris, the ability to summon Krakens, Magnataurs and Iron Stars.
You mean after Garrosh invaded Ashenvale? No duh, the Alliance still has plenty of causa belli against the Horde’s constant aggression.
Alliance miners were being attacked long before we got to Silithus, as for the whole Stormheim debacle, Sylvanas was literally making deals with a devil. I always wondered if she ever bother to tell Saurfang that particular detail.
Yet it would be on the Horde to prove that he didn’t know what she was upto. Genn was told by Anduin to only act if he believed there was a reason. He found justification for his actions because Sylvanas was working against the Player(on both sides) and attacking allies that ended up assisting us in fighting the Legion. Not to mention working with Helya who was attacking them all.
You also have to remember this is after the Alliance believes the horde left them to die on the broken shore so they aren’t willing to give the Horde the benefit of the doubt at the time.
The issue lies in the fact it is never brought up again after Stormheim and Sylvanas actions are just ignored but Genn’s actions are used to start a war.
What if saurfang had questioned her on why she had kidnapped Eyir or the deals she was making with Helya? Do you really think he would have gone along with it? Do you think he would believe she only wanted to use them to empower the forsaken? Unlikely he barely trusted her. Don’t you think Etrigg who was in the halls of Valor would would have heard about all this going on and mentioned it to Saurfang when he came back?
What about if he had pointed out that she killed Genn’s son? As a father who had grieved so much after losing his son to Arthas he would have understood why Genn wanted her dead? Im sure he would have consider it reasonable he was still so sad his son he was gonna off himself. I mean if the lich king was still alive I’m sure he would have tried to kill him in revenge
The story had to force Saurfang to go along with the war so had these parts of his character and the story forgotten to make that work.
And yet nobody outside that one specific and distinctive group seems to back you up either. So maybe it’s just you…being self-centered.
I mean…TIE Fighter is one of my favorite video games of all time. But even I can acknowledge that I’m basically playing as a Space N*zi when I play it.
Except it’s NOT genocide, because it’s NOT REAL. There ARE NO BURNED children. They’re just a bunch of polygons.
You can’t separate reality from fiction and you’re pissed off at the people who can because they don’t share your mental disorder.
I play both sides because you have to if you want all the Pets!
Not any different from my race. When they were introduced Blood Elves were the “Kinda sinister, draining other creatures of their magic” Elves. And I made one because it was the closest thing WoW had to Drow at the time.
12 years later, we’re like the “Super Holy Paladins, Praise the Light” Elves. Pretty much the exact opposite of what I chose the race for.
But that’s just how stories go sometimes. Things change. People have arcs. If you can’t adapt, you unsubscribe.
Technically they all failed. As, last I checked, Night Elves, Humans, Draenei and High Elves are all still around.
Also, you skipped Garithos.
That wasn’t my takeaway from the Scourge campaign…
…cause we didn’t lose the war, so we don’t gotta?
I mean, it woulda been nice to get a warning first but…yes?
It’s also not genocide when the only thing you have to do to make the killing stop is…turn around and go the other way.
No I mean literally in WotLK. During the Siege of Undercity conclusion Varian literally declares war on the Horde and attempts to attack the Horde’s leaders. In both the Horde and Alliance versions of the scenario. Then that goes nowhere, so that Garrosh can “start the War”. Well, except for the whole “the NEs ceasing all trade with the Horde during a elemental upheaval, causing a massive famine; as “punishment” for the Wrathgate” thing. But no, Garrosh started it.
As for BfA. The Horde barely won the single battle we absolutely had to win to label us the villain for the entire expansion … and then we don’t win a single other battle after that. The friggen Naga did more damage to the Alliance than we did after that. Hell, A Good War specifically frames it as if the NEs alone had both Tyrande and Malf on the field at the same time, the entire Horde combined could never hope to win a battle against them. So yeah, Weak, Ineffectual Villains.
And there were no “Alliance Miners” in Silithus. What you’re referring to is the Bilgewater’s attack on the Explorer’s League, so that Wix could kidnap Sapph for Grizzek (a plot line that only mechanically exists to again weakly invalidate and justify what was an Act of War against the Horde by the Alliance). It is also super murky that chain of events, with even BtS making it seem like the attack on the Bilgewater Mining operations within that region happening first. Not after.
Or maybe, just maybe it was necessary because the playerbase of said faction was still apologizing the stuff and didn’t want to accept they ARE the scourge-like villians.
They have been written as such. But as they still were in full denial even after Teldrassil, Blizzard probably had to put up more till even the last one ackkowledges reality.
Though … they still can’t for some reason.
Still chaning “It WaS jUsT SyLvAnAs!!”… as if she opened these camps personally and ran them.
Building concentration camps what do think does it make you?! What is the associaltion with that and what does the writer imply with it?! Participating in it makes you guilty as hell. No.Matter.What.
The Horde are monsters, inhumane and disgusting. They have been intentionally written to do basically every atrocity imaginable in BFA. Every single one was marked off that atrocity bingo card.
Of course they didn’t. That’s why everyone and their dog is upset at how the Horde was written.
This is not what was advertised and the constant emotional jerking around is not fun.
It IS however REALITY.
It is how it is now. The same way as how it is with NEs now.
Don’t like it? Well I don’t like the burning of Teldrassil either. But that is how it is. And the Horde are scourge like villians who build and run conentration camps. The Horde, not Sylvanas alone.
Far too many do not understand that there is no “good” nor “evil”, “right” or “wrong” in warfare. There are only sides. One man’s “terrorist” is another’s “freedom fighter”. An example? America’s most infamous traitor, Benedict Arnold is considered a hero in Britain with statues put in place to celebrate him.
That said? The Horde owes the Alliance ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but further genocide… for YOU would be OUR enemy… as WE are yours. Swapping stories about who is responsible for “more evil” is a simple means to encourage a populace to continue to support a war effort.
Why would I wish PEACE with the Alliance? Peace NEVER comes until one side has been rendered completely incapable of offensive measures or even defend themselves. Stopping a conflict before you reach that point only means you are enabling an enemy to grow strong and come back upon you when they are most prepared and you are least prepared.