Well Tyrande is her freaking high priest, don’t know but I expect from a high priest of a godess to be able to call froth to that godess. Else there is no reason for that.
Gonna be hard to do that once we get to the moon expansion.
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I think the point is that the more active Elune becomes in the story, the harder it is to answer the question of why she didn’t do more in the past. Like, did Tyrande just not pray hard enough for Elune to intervene more directly in the war? (Ignoring the meta answer of “Blizzard didn’t want her to”)
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My main problem is with Elune being probably the only True Diety in WoW it rubs me the wrong way with the direction they’ve pushed Elune and Tyrande as of late. Espcially since Horde doesn’t have anything too at the very least combat her when blizzard eventually makes her do something to us.
Elune helping quite a bit lately, is gonna make it hard to justify her not helping out later unless something blocks her etc. then you have Tyrande being super pissed at Sylv and the Horde.
It’s only a matter of time before you have players asking…if Elune listens to Tyrande’s and other night elfs call…why doesn’t she just ask Elune to smite all the horde since…it’s within her power?
Blizzard: Well Elune only would do that to those deemed a massive threat to azeroth herself.
Horde players: Begin to sweat nervously
Alliance players: Seriously blizzard? Pulls out list of Horde faults
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Yes that is allways an issue if you involve gods.
This is why I like the night warrior story actually. You don’t have to have Elune directly intervene but empowering her worshipers to such a degree that they can fullfil that in their own.
I think that is the whole point of that storyline. Elune is one of the only few real gods (for now) and for those there seem to be special rules.
In D&D for example gods can’t enter the material plane, it is impossible for them no matter what. They can however work through their followers, guide them and bestow them with power.
So Elune couldn’t just extinguishe the flames on Teldrassil, but bestow Tyrande with the power to do so.
Yet both Tyrande and Malfurion weren’t there and noone even expected that to happen, as the goal was to capture Teldrassil.
(And too be honest, noone even thought it would even be possible to burn a healthy tree the size of a mountain. Which was the first idiotic thing no story could prepare for if suddenly physics or how the world normally functions change because Sylvanas is so awesome.)
This is the issue with that arms race.
Lets say in classic no race or faction even has had the ability to create an apocalyptic scenario like Teldrassil so nothing could happen to either faction to jstify an internevention of the godess.
Sure there were skirmishes for 3 trees in Ashenvale, but not more intense things.
But we have reached a spot with BFA, like I said, where even the wow-physics were changed in terms of Sylvanas which is even more complicated than elunes intervention.
With a gods intervention you allways could at least say: “yeah well this time she wsa buisy or she works in mysterious ways” … but with the narrative of frecking catapults fireing miles!! and igniting something that is remotel flamebale on the spot there is no turning back from changed physics like that.
What prevents the horde from attacking Stormwind for example while sitting in stranglethorn with their inter continental catapults?
Elunes intervention was not the problem. The whole WoT was. It wass just a complete deus ex machina for Sylvanas to force an outcome (Burning of Teldrassil) that would and should actually be completely impossible.
My problem with the “Elune Smite” thing is that it takes the burden of action off the NEs. If they want their vengeance, even if Blizz were to allow it, then they should be allowed to get their hands dirty and coat themselves in blood for it. None of this “Divine Retribution” nonsense, especially since outside of Sylvie’s motives … the War of Thornes truly was just a battle between two mortal political powers. At its core, that’s all it really was outside of Teld.
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I mean…that’s just blizzard being beyond stupid and refusing to atleast explain something that takes like a sentence of saying “Shamans used the wind elements to help the Azerite infused round inside the catapult extend farther than it ever should of been capable that day” etc.
Also
The Goblins already have a Giant cannon aimed towards stormwinds direction so shrug
This still feels bad honestly, since again…true diety we already have in Shadowlands Tyrande being shown beyond powerful and how minions were sent for various leaders and they got everyone but Tyrande who fended them off with ease, and then you have Tyrande jumping head first into the portal into the shadowlands and just leaving a litter of bodies in her wake.
When you have a character that is listed as a true diety, they for all intents and purpose any character given a boon by them need to be leagues stronger than other characters who get buffed by the other lesser “gods” (Wild gods- Loa) or else you’re left wondering "What was the point of this buff if it did nothing at all and the character is still getting whipped?
*Looks at Night Warrior Tyrande/ Malfurion/ (Player Character) vs. Valk empowered Nathanos / (Player Character)
Or, she’s not all-powerful, and there’s only so much she can do.
There has been a Leak weeks before blizzcon that precisely predicted everyting of BFA. During that leak it was mentioned that Sylvanas will ignite Teldrassil herself with a shard of Sargeras weapon.
I buy that explanation and think it was the intend before but Blizzard seem to have decided against it at some point in order to involve the Horde into it aswell, not just Sylvanas.
In that case the horde would again however pull out a super weapon from their buts but at least it would have been more believable.
Yes I know, that is what I mean. You argue “why doest’t a godess intervene every time then”, I ask “why doesn’t the horde use inter continental catapults everytime then”. It basically is the same. Every time one of these doomsday devices is used the question is why is it no longer. Same goes for the Vindicaar. Where is a giant deathlaser spaceship that could blow a hole into a Legions fortess when we need one to blow a hole into a ruined city? Instead we got yet another magical spaceship that was… for some reason unable to follow up a Zeppelin.
Which was the big critique with 8.1 and is completely in line with BFAs complete and uterly stupidity that made NO sense no matter where you look.
Now they are correcting that, showing Tyrande as powerfull as a diety as it should have been before.
Of course we will inthe next expansion again be in the same situation: “Why is the nightwarrior now not blowing up orgrimmar or silvermoon or whatever else in 10.0 is going to be attacked by the horde again.”
But that is a consistency… the Night Warriors power will be then in the closet next to the vindikaar, next to malfurions power or Anduins mass ress. It will for some strange reasons never be used again against a direct threat.
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Something people may have forgotten about the Night Warrior.
In the original scene where Tyrande becomes the Night Warrior, she doesn’t ask for power that Elune then grants, she demands power that she then takes forcibly. That’s why the ritual is such a no-no.
It’s not the same though? One is stupid and blizzard just bending the rules of their own story to fit something stupid (Rule of cool), but ultimately it could be easily fixed or countered within the story.
(Just like in real life the reason we don’t just constantly use these WMD is because when both sides have a crap ton anyone useing one just leaves everyone screwed as the world gets destroyed as everyone uses their WMD)
While the other is a goddess that blizzard has had called a “True Deity” The more said Deity does the harder it becomes to excuse said inaction or hell how does the Horde even counter a True Deity? That they can’t interact with, see, touch etc.
There is no implication for that.
The words are "I only serve you if you GRANT me justice, […] I DEMAND to wear your darkest face.
Yes she is not begging for power, she demands it, but there is no implication that Elune would have been unable to deny that. Hence the word “grant”.
She just says directly if you deny me that power you can shove it. Tyrande was pissed off but there is also no implication if Elune woulnd’t have granted her the power if she asked nicely.
Also Elune did intervene eventually in Teldrassil but it seems like I have said earlier, there are very strict rules in which a true diety is able to interact with the physical world.
So with the status of a true diety there also seem to come limitations hence the necessity for dietys to even have followers and them creating life in order to fullfill their intentions.
Well the Alliance also couldn’t counter an all knowing Sylvanas that was able to bend physics to ignite a mountain of fresh wood within seconds.
There is no difference in that.
The difference is, like I have pointed out, that for dietys there seem to be rules and limitations. As for Sylvanas not even physics seem to be an issue for her. (And yes before someone starts, there have to be some laws of physics in the world since water flows downwards, we have gravity, fire needs oxygen and canbe extinguished and fire seems to behave like in the real world else every campfire woudl cause a firestorm that burns half of the continent)
Lets be honest, its not that the Horde didn’t have the ability to set a tree on fire, presuming Azerite refined to be an explosive is as volatile as its portrayed.
Gobs have had rocket propelled ordinance since before Vanilla WoW that could easily bridge that gap from Darkshore. Not saying I wanted Teld to happen, but its very clear that Blizz wanted desperately to hammer home that WC3 Nostalgia with the War of Thornes. Which is why the Horde was never allowed to use any tech that post-dates Cata during it, and even that Cata tech is in remarkably short supply … with the majority of it dating back to BC.
Not saying what Blizz did was any less stupid, its just … not really stupid for the reason people think. Its more “Blizz decided catapults were cooler and more WC3” and less “The Horde could never have launched artillery that distance”. We could, its just less “aesthetic”.
Elune is the only True diety though…we don’t exactly know the rules?
The other entities like the Void/ Light are entities that are just on a power scale so high they most likely can’t enter the mortal/ spiritual realm because I imagine it’s like a hole, and they’re both trying to get in it but can’t because they’re too big so someone or something has to help them from the other side.
Again…thats just blizzard being stupid with the story and forcing everyone but Sylvanas at the time to have an IQ less than 2, so they could push the plot they wanted.
If blizzard actually cared for the story and didn’t just constantly look for an easy way out or break holes into the wall all the time, they could give a reasonable explanation on why Sylvanas couldn’t be countered at that time etc.
Yah regarding the Physics thing I really don’t think blizzard cares or goes into it, and I don’t think most people care as long as it isn’t just stupidly game/story.
Nothing has ever mattered when it comes to Blizzard Rule of cool.
Depends.
If you ever tried to ignite a campfire you know that surface area and vlume is a factor. Means you need more surface area than volume to ignite a piece of wood. Hence you take little sticks and twigs that have a lot of surface to kickstart the fire and from that on you work your way up using thicker branches.
You will not be able to ever ignite a tree using a zippo. No matter how long you stay there holding it. Especially not if said tree is not dry but full of water.
So to ignite a fresh tree full of water you need a pretty huge and very hot fire, covering a lot of surface of said tree.
This was simply not the case with Teldrassil. You literally threw pebbles at a tree the size of a mountain.
You tried to ignite a 1000 years old Oak with a match stick. And for some reason and defying all physics it worked.
But it doesn’t end here.
Lets assume you would have been able to create a fire that burns as hut as the surface of the sun, it would still take AGES for it to travel up the whole tree. Yet it catched fire within seconds.
So no no matter what tech would have been used there is no way to ignite a tree that size without the use of an equally sized source of fire.
So a magical item from the possesion of a fiery dark titan might be able to but no frecking catapults.
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In the book, it was clear that Tyrande is living at Nordrassil. I think that is clearly the current capital.
The talk of the Forsaken seems to be that they will have a capital when Lordaeron is cleared of blight. So they are currently homeless.
It is true that, IRL, large green trees are hard to burn.
It is, in fact, also true that burning them is not always fatal to them.
This latter could be a plot point, except that I don’t think Blizzard is really aware of any of it. “The tree is wood, it burned!”
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No we don’t know the rules (yet) but we know there seem to be some, else Elune would have intervened since she did when the prayer started in Teldrassil or when Saurfang attacked Malfurion (though this was just a guess from sylvanas).
But there are.
Yes I mean I also don’t think we need to talk alot about physics in a fantasy world, but some basics should be followed just out of necessity.
I mean I don’t really want to argue against you, having a diety involves IS a problem, it will be one no matter what.
I just wanted to say that currently we have a very, very active diety invovled that is able to bend time and reality and physical rules: Which is Sylvanas diety: the writers. And they are more malicious and problematic than Elune could ever be, because appearently no rules apply to them. No lore, no logic, no rules, no physics, no past and no future.
The Live in Cali with Forest fires happening frequently enough, I don’t think they cared much beyond “Tree’s burn when they get hot.”
We can’t really state that something or someone follows certain rules, if we don’t know what said rules are or have anything else to base it off of, she is the only True Deity so far…for all we know Elune just lowkey likes to watch her subjects suffer, and only feels the need to help from time to time because “God works in mysterious ways” and maybe she really wants to know who would win in a fight One Elune powered boi or one Old God