So, when you engage in content you get “locked” for that id. That can last zero/nothing for normal encounters or like for heroic it lasts until someone just resets IDs which can be done so many times an hour. Or for mythic0 dungeon it’s non-resettable and it lasts for the week. And so on etc.
My situation is that I’m in a mythic raid group progressing through and when we are done for the week sometimes I’d like to keep going. Look up in the finder and try to find other groups that are working on bosses I haven’t done yet. But … I’ve been told I’m whole-raid-locked to an ID now and that’s it, I can’t do anything else period done. Which … kills the rest of that for the week.
We even had a situation where 1 of the 20 had to break for 30 and we were effectively just twiddling our thumbs. Like if it was a per-bosss lock on kill we could have added someone in and gone for it … but in the current scheme just adding someone in (without even a kill) locks their ID to ours for the week. They can’t do anything else. It was kind of frustrating for us.
And I think I’m answering my own question.
If it was a per-boss-on-kill ID lock then no one would stick together to work on stuff. I would be one wipe and some people would leave in an endless game of musical chairs. Having whole raid punitive ID-lock promotes guild, which is good.
Still, sometimes frustrating. Seems like there could be some evolution here.
how about this …
Like maybe a guest-status on someone elses ID? Only gold and credit on kill, no loot and no vault credit. That way there would still be the proper guild/group incentive but people could individually go out and seek more practice if they wanted to.
EDIT: I think the guest-ID is a crap idea too, dang. If that existed mythic raid groups would natively fill to 16-18 and then the last spots would fill with paid hitters. Gold for hire mythic raid group members who would all be fotm specs/classes. Like for soulrender there would be slappyhands DKs. Overgear druid tanks would be hot. And whatever dps was currently hot too. This would make for a significantly worse game culture/environment.
I don’t know what the answer is, I’d just like to do more prog and feeling blocked.
I don’t think removing the ID lock would harm guild prog groups all that much.
I mentioned it in another thread, but I strongly believe the mythic lockout should be lifted once cross realm is enabled.
I also believe that guilds/players stuck on a single boss for prog, for weeks without any chance to progress their gear or at least attempt some other bosses, will undoubtedly lead to burnout much quicker; killing guilds mid SoD (or any raid tier).
Bringing in 2-3 pugs, or going out to pug on your own isn’t going to magically make any group progress faster as the group on a whole needs to be doing mechanics properly past 3/10. We are past the point of gear being a limitation to killing any mythic boss, so bringing a handful of stacked players wouldn’t make that big a difference. Groups that are regularly clearing likely have a full roster, and are also swapping in alts to gear, so outside of a sales run they are not bring pugs. Those same players that are capable of regularly clearing and or know fights are likely not looking to PUG, thus shouldn’t have a major effect on players joining other lockouts in the same raid week.
More accessibility to the high tier end game content would only help the community, more restrictions and arbitrary lockouts/progression stops hurt the community.
The purpose is to “encourage” players to form one static committed group to see the raid through. Mythic Raid is content designed specifically around guilds, or tight-knit raids groups, and for most of the relevant tier is not even available to PuG. The entire design is to tell you to find a guild or community of friends on your server, and that’s why Mythic was specifically left on the Instance ID lockout while Normal and Heroic were moved over to the Boss Loot lock.
so what’s the benefit? who gains from this other than carry groups when, as you say, a few pugs here or there aren’t going to turn a wipe-all-night boss into a 2-shot boss?
If you weren’t all saved to one raid ID, you could sell the same mythic lockout 20 times (one of each raid member initially saved). That’s what it’s designed to prevent.
And how many of those groups will actually kill the boss? 1?
I foresee a lot more people throwing away gold/money by doing that than actually clearing the bosses. It’s not that it doesn’t make sense, but is it actually a productive means of preventing said things?
It does seem like a blizzard thing to do, though in this case they may actually make more money off people trying to buy lockouts if this were they case. Shame they’re throwing away money.
that’s so weird. if i didn’t know better i might almost think that was evidence that Blizzard cares about something other than just money. but that’s crazy talk, right?
Best case scenario this would allow a handful of groups to skip painsmith and down guardian. It wouldn’t do anything to deter groups that sell runs, and again, multiple individuals buying lockouts when they have a 2% chance of clearing those bosses without buying another 15 players to carry the run minimum is feasible for virtually no one.
So again, does it really prevent selling of mythic bosses that aren’t pug-able or being sold already? Probably not, so why the ID lockout? Just makes it harder for players who may otherwise break into mythic raiding but are deterred or burned out for a multitude of reasons including ID lockouts.
That’s obviously gameplay Blizzard doesn’t want to encourage though, no matter what the “best case” is.
However, let’s take that for granted (I don’t agree, but that’s not relevant). That’s only a dynamic for this tier. In previous tiers or expansions, skipping past certain problematic/blocking bosses would have had very different gains.
I think you’ve severely misunderstood what was brought up. Blizzard have zero problems with individuals buying runs (or mounts). Right now, any guild can sell their run, but to do so it takes allocating one instance, they have to forfeit any loot from that instance, and even if they have the alts to split into multiple runs, there’s a finite number possible (since each character can commit to 1 run max). And each run has to start from the first boss, and go all the way to the end.
What they do not want to create, however, is a system where an exponential/infinite number of instances can be spawned, startable from anywhere (e.g. right before the end boss), and traded to an infinite capacity. If you decide to sell someone an Instance ID now, you’re trading something - you forfeit the ID for yourself/your guild. If you can simply spawn them and sell an infinite number of them, you’re trading nothing, just cashing in on infinite opportunities. They’d also want to make sure there’s never possibility for gameplay where progressing guilds benefit from/find it optimal to buy “skips” as part of their progression gameplay (by opening up more easy bosses, and then tackling the harder boss with much better loot opportunities).
Just makes it harder for players who may otherwise break into mythic raiding
If a player wants to “break” into Mythic raiding, they should be joining a guild or community on their server to do Mythic raiding. That’s what Mythic raiding is designed for, and encouraging that is literally one of the main points of the current system. Mythic raiding is not something people are meant to “break into” in PuG’s.
The answer is that Myrhic Raiding is supposed to be hard.
Hard stuff is hard for a reason. When it comes to Mythic Raiding part of that reason is the hard limit of raid size, and the lockout. This enforces boundaries and obstacles on group formation that creates a requirement for a steady, planned and committed group. All of which makes the process of Mythic Raiding more difficult.
If you are feeling blocked, that’s an intentional part of the the design.
hmmm, I don’t think so. Making something less accessible or inaccessible isn’t the same thing as “we’re making it hard”. Making something inconvenient or annoying isn’t the same thing as having a good challenge.
This covers many thing in WC from travel time to strange character things that seem organically built as gimped so that they require added bits to be useful. We have an interesting span of ages in our groups, from teen to over fifty, the kids bring up interesting points when they say stuff that’s essentially “why is it that way?” to stuff that we have just accepted. From their pov there’s lots of things in this game that are just idiosyncratically blocked in some way to provide the illusion of challenge or achievement … and I can’t say they are wrong.
I don’t know the answers, but less accessibility is sus.
Yeah, forming raid groups or guilds is not supposed to be a difficulty portion of Mythic Raiding. It CAN be hard to keep a functioning raid group together, but that’s mostly a side effect of declining populations, unsustainable servers, faction imbalances, and things like that which have plagued guilds. None of that was actually “designed” for.
I understand, but in the end, it’s not viable to sell runs like that because for 99% of the players buying runs would not be able to complete the bosses. Therefor, why keep the instance id lockout after hall of fame is closed?
It serves no purpose. Meanwhile removing said instance lockouts will let the already small population of mythic raiders get a chance to pick up gear while prog’ing on later bosses, or practice other bosses, or just raid if they enjoy raiding.
Selling mythic runs at such a scale isn’t viable, whatsoever.
The Hall of Fame closing is not the point where guilds have stopped progressing. It’s merely a point where they’ve chosen to open up cross-realm Mythic to an audience it’s not intended for.
The “already small population of mythic raiders” is not meant to be sharing or trading raid lockouts period; they’re supposed to be progressing through the bosses from start to end. Anything that would disrupt that would get clamped down on super hard. I don’t really any reason they’d change that philosophy.
I don’t think you’ve fully thought this through. You seem to be laser-focused on the idea of one random person buying a lockout to “progress” without considering all the other uses of being able to sell an infinite number of raid lockouts at any point in the dungeon, with people being able to zone in and help on all of them; just being loot-locked to one time.
Go buy a Heroic Sylvanas lockout. Now only invite 19 other players who havent cleared the boss together, with no comms, no organization, and no planning.
You’re laser focused on disagreeing. You can’t come up with a counter argument to how selling “mythic” lockouts isn’t viable past the scale it’s already done at, so I don’t see any point in continuing.