What lore claim do you cringe at the most when you see it on these forums/in-game?

Lore Story Forum
102

You could say Baine may have started it when he defied and released Jaina’s brothers however that is not to say the rest had rebelled at that time. They may had misgivings about sylvanas but never openly challenged her or disobeyed her and actively support her with troops. They only openly rebel do that after Saurfang and Thrall save Baine(with alliance help)

Thinking your warchief is a bad guy and actively doing something about it are two very different things.

Vol’jins rebellion didn’t start until he recovered from attempted assassination by garrosh. Even then he spent time playing around with monks fighting the Zandalar before returning to the Horde.

Before the Assassination he was following Garrosh’s orders just like the rest.

Did they openly speak up against her or disobey her though? No it was all hushed conversation. Even Lothermar feared that his people would support Sylvanas if he stood against her.

On the flip side take the Alliance where not only does Tyrande openly challenge Anduins decision she disobeys him and takes her forces out of the Alliances hands, Genn also does this. They couldn’t do this if Anduin was in absolute control of the Alliance(though he acts like it sometimes).

Even after the war has ended Tyrande still refuses to agree with Anduins peace treatybut is still a member of the Alliance.

103

No, i know how it started and it doesn’t absolve them from supporting said warchiefs in the first place.
Sadly, they are all tainted.

a rebelleion that started when garrosh tried to kill voljin and not before.
maybe if that didn’t happened they would be happy to keep commiting warcrimes until they conquer the world.

Ah yes and this happened more or less at 8.1.
Meaning that they still supporting all their previous actions until that time.

You mean the same rexxar who invaded kultiran lands and helped to build a base right after it was destroyed for literally attacking the civillians of brennadad?
The same rexxar who later sets free a criminal like ashvane who uses childrens as slaves?
Or we talk about thalisra who was setting in fire stormwind so they can make their escape from there (after releasing another criminal), going even further they set on fire a catedral full of nelf and gilnean refugees.
mayla, and lor’themar who did literally nothing about it?.

Sure as long as there is a warchief they have no other choice, in other words they supported her. and THE HORDE genocide.

again, the only one who did actually something was baine.
What happened? he was put in prison and almost executed.

Baine is free of guilt, can we say the same about the rest?.

104

“Sure, I shot you in the face but you suck too because you pushed me!”

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105

Well, The Zandalari didn’t attack the Alliance, much less their civilians so the Alliance had no reason to take it out on theirs…
Dazalar was a STUPID military move but was not without merit. Anduin was trying to send the Zandalari AND the Horde a message that they weren’t going to sit idly by while the Zandalari and the Horde Teamed up against them. But the Zandalari was not their true Enemy and the entire assault was overstepping so many bounds.

Calculated move. It was obviously going to make the Zandalari into an enemy (not that they weren’t already one) but it still demonstrated that the Alliance had the Power to behead the Snake and could of done so much more, but they choose to spare them.

The Zandalari knows that the Alliance is a Force to take seriously.

106

So if y’all wanna talk about whether or not the actions of the warchief can reasonably blamed on the entire Horde, I’m only going to respond in a seperate topic. We’ve derailed enough. I’m’a follow others’ example and get back on topic, because I’m full of pet peeves regarding lore.

  1. Yeah, retcons. Most of the time, because most retcons are bad. Retcons that add more to the story than they take away? Usually good. Retcons that take stuff away for the sake of “simplicity”? Not so much.

  2. Lore that starts off in a toy, a profession quest, a throwaway piece of dialog you might not see, or other “easter eggs”. Ny’alotha and all that was fun when it was limited to the Puzzle Box. It became less fun when it became real. Now I have to pay attention to decade-old toys from a terrible profession to get hints about the upcoming direction of the game?

  3. Forcing everything into Titan stuff. I liked WoW better when there were mysteries to the origins of all things. Finding out everything (or nearly so) came about because a titan did it, an old god corrupted it, or derivations thereof? Bland, boring, unmysterious. This leads to…

  4. The over-explaining of recent years. Chronicle started this, but the game and devs keep going forward with it. When every single damn thing has a definitive origin, a laid out history, a by-the-numbers source, it quickly gets boring.

  5. Also “dev lore”. When a dev says something about the lore, and it becomes canon and unrepresented in-game. This fills me with cringe; if you can’t be bothered to put it in the game or a book, don’t bother with it.

  6. Those comics. The Me’dan ones. Not just because of Me’dan, but because some got retconned out and some didn’t. Is Garona still half-draenei? Did C’thun almost get resurrected by Cho’gal? Because they tried to soft retcon those comics, I don’t know which parts are still canon.

  7. Overdeveloping the old gods and giving them bosses. I hate void lords. I hate knowing where the old gods come from. I hate that old gods are just probe droids sent to find Azeroth.

  8. Oh, and I hate this “planets as titan eggs” crap. I hate the concept, I hate the inclusion, I hate Azeroth as a super-titan. Its existence irks me.

9 & 10) I can’t think of them now.

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107

Oooh, let me try! (Not trying to pick a side in the ongoing discussion, just list making.) For this purpose, I’m including anyone I can think of who had a leadership role of some sort in the Horde, not just the big faction leaders, and any attempt at killing said leader, whether it was for her own interest or not.

Dranosh Saurfang, commander of the Kor’kron Vanguard (if you believe that she directly orchestrated the Wrathgate; he would have been hit by the Blight if Arthas hadn’t gotten him first)
Zaela, leader of the Dragonmaw Clan (Sylvanas is part of the Horde version of the Siege of Orgrimmar fight against her)
Garrosh Hellscream, Warchief of the Horde (technically twice, both as part of the rebellion during Siege of Orgrimmar, and when plotting to poison him during his trial)
Vol’jin, Warchief of the Horde (if you believe that she was deliberately involved in his death at the Broken Shore)
Varok Saurfang, High Overlord of the Horde (multiple attempts, starting with Siege of Lordaeron if you believe that she deliberately left him to be killed by the Alliance)
Baine Bloodhoof, High Chieftain of Mulgore (arrested and sentenced to execution for undermining her)
Thrall, former warchief of the Horde (if you believe that the assassins Saurfang followed were sent after him)
Lor’themar Theron, Regent Lord of Quel’Thalas (assigned to the Horde fleet sent to Nazjatar, which according to the Ny’alotha raid was meant by Sylvanas to end in the death of all participants )
Thalyssra, First Arcanist of Suramar (like Lor’themar, assigned to the Horde fleet to Nazjatar)
Oculeth, Chief Telemancer of Suramar (part of the Horde Nazjatar fleet, though he was probably there because of Thalyssra)

Last, but not least, the Horde Champion, if you are not a Sylvanas loyalist! Technically we lead our order halls and served as generals in the Draenor campaign, and we get sent to Nazjatar by Nathanos on Sylvanas’ behalf!

looks at list How is Gallywix not on that list somewhere?

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108

So let’s talk about the Broken Shore- specifically the way in which Sylvanas retreated.

Now I don’t blame her sounding for the Horde to retreat in the first place, she would have been stupid not to (Though I always was puzzled at how the Horde and all of its heroes fell to trash while the Alliance was about to take on the Lion’s Share ((no pun intended)) of demon bosses. So much for the “Power of the Horde” right? Hahahaha).

I do blame her for not communicating better with the Alliance.

If you play the Alliance side of the scenario, Sylvanas is barking and squawking at the Alliance with her horrible voice the entire time, telling them to hurry up and whatnot because apparently the Horde is having trouble downing the trash.

Literally all it would’ve taken was for her to bark out, “Our commander has fallen. We cannot hold this position any longer”.

Boom. Retreat horns. Varian and the others make their escape, he likely dies still so that the Alliance airship can escape, but in this scenario the Horde is 100% blameless (apart from just seeming weak af for dying to trash :joy: ) and Genn and Rogers have much, much less of a leg to stand on when attacking Sylvanas in Stormheim.

Remember- from the ALLIANCE’S point of view, Sylvanas left them to die. They had no idea what was going on over that ridge. So in their eyes, they were entirely justified in going after her during Legion. Yes, she could’ve been in dire straits. But what if she wasn’t? They had no idea whether she was or not. And considering her track record with treachery… it was much easier to assume the worst.

For the players, we know better. So that’s why there was never really any Alliance players who got upset over that. It’s unfortunate that the Horde are so bad at communication though, because it could’ve prevented a lot of heartache and pain in the expansion and story to follow.

At most, what we can gather from this whole event is that the Horde are really chumps when it comes to holding the line against demon trash. :wink:

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109

It is peculiar that the Blood Elves joined the Horde, specifically because of the Orcs, as, for example, Saurfang was Doomhammer’s liutenant in command of the rearguard when the Horde marched on Quel’Thalas.

The idea is that the Forsaken helped them into the Horde. But then, it’s also peculiar that the Forsaken are in the Horde as well, as, for example, the denizens of Tarren Mill, Thrall’s former slavers, are now Forsaken.

Combining these two oddities, Quel’Thalas left the Alliance because Quel’Thalas had voted to execute all the Orcs and didn’t want to spend resources on internment camps, leaving that to Lordareon. Who are now, once again, the Forsaken.

And it’s not like these are different people, different generations. The Elves are the same people, as are the Undead and the Orcs. Yet Thrall overlooked all this because the Tauren wanted to help the Forsaken, and then that extended over to the Blood Elves as well.

The Blood Elves joined the Horde because the Horde helped them out, sure. But looking passed the simplicity of that and the crying of Garithos - a name that is never actually ever been brought up in World of Warcraft - and there’s a lot of things that had to be ignored.

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110

Oh boy. Here I go!

  1. Anyone defending Jaina during the purge of Dalaran
    1.5) C’mon, just own it. Don’t try and say “b-but they deserved it!” no they didn’t, and it’s absolutely fine that you’re happy that you got to murder some blood elves. No, this is not sarcasm.
  2. Any Alliance poster’s opinion on the Tyrande-Thalyssra-Liadrin event
  3. Anything to do with blood elves joining the Horde (there is some proper dialogue that can be had, but 99.99% of the time it is not)
  4. Anyone attempting to explain what orcish honour is
  5. 80% of night elf posters’ posts, regardless of content (let’s be honest, it’s always the same tripe)
  6. People who complain about how the Horde is evil
    6.5) Honourable mentions: Saurfang being a god, anything about how Thrall needs to come back, almost anything a bad-grammar Alliance poster writes about the Horde
  7. People who say “muh honourable Horde!” or anything similar
  8. People complaining about how bad and awful the story is, yeah okay cool no one’s forcing you to be here/play the game
  9. People who apply modern day ethics and morals on ingame events
  10. People who are STILL going on about the god damn tree
  11. People who whinge about Anduin. Give him a god damned break.
  12. People who make grand sweeping statements about upcoming expansions based on the little information we have currently (see: point 5)
  13. Anytime “Calia”, “leading” and “forsaken” are in the same sentence, unless there’s a “shouldn’t”, “can’t” or anything similar in the mix as well
  14. When people think there’s a simple “good guy/bad guy” dichotomy

And, perhaps my most hated,

  1. ANYONE RPING
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111

Now, as for some of my own personal thoughts on cringeful moments:

  1. Horde players claiming that the friendly fire during the Battle of Lordaeron is the soldiers’ own fault for not retreating in time. Yeah no, just don’t even.

  2. Horde players blaming Genn for being a “warmonger” during Stormheim when he attacked Sylvanas when Sylvanas has a looooong list of grievances with not only Genn, but many Alliance races at the time. This is even before the burning of Teldrassil.

  3. Blood elf players whining about how they have it so bad when they are literally the race that has the most positive future outlook in the story right now.

  4. Horde players who claim that Legion was an “Alliance-leaning” expansion when 2 entire zones plus an entire RAID tier was devoted to Horde-aligned characters.

  5. Horde players calling out Baine for going against the tyrant in power at the moment, and risking his life to do the right thing. Horde players continuing to tease and make fun of Baine afterwards because he didn’t bend the knee to one of the most violent and unhinged warchiefs since Blackhand. And these are the same Horde players who complain about how bad they have it- when they’re shown an ounce of good what do they do? Reject it outright. Smh

And the top cringeful moment on this forum has to go to…

  1. Any Horde player who ever thought or thinks that Sylvanas deserves a chance at being redeemed. You could argue for a case shortly after the end of Wrath, but any time after Cataclysm? She’s too far gone. There’s literally no way to get around this other than some major story shenanigans, which with this current writing team is not very farfetched, admittedly. So who knows! You may actually get your wish. :smiley:
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112

most of your stuff arent even lore claims

113

I count myself lucky that I’ve not witnessed such tripe. It’s rare I see weird Horde RP, outside of Yagarr.

This is prime “cringe”, since there was an armistice.

Legion was an Alliance expansion. Let’s assume for a second that this point was even valid - that HMT/NB are considered to be Horde before 8.3.5 - literally everything else was major Alliance. Not to mention Val’sharrah? Hello? Sorry, this one’s on you.

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114

the biggest cringe is horde players defeading sylvanas in stormheim when she is basically aiding the legion

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115

What a disingenuous statement. I believe you fulfil most of my personal ‘cringe’ list.

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116

Good list.

What is this btw?

Cdev

I see this on here but never know what it is.

VVV Edit: VVV

TY

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117

Creative development - basically, the lore team.

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118

One thing I do find pretty cringy is when people try to apply “should have known” to any given story point. Obviously in the case of the Broken Shore it being the Alliance “should have known” the horn was a call for retreat and so “should have known” they were not betrayed.

No one actually behaves logically in Warcraft’s setting. Discussing what characters “should have known” rather than what they actually believed might as well be discussing fanfiction over the actual story content.

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119

So this thread is basically just now “things that the other side does which I hate”.

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120

So? Even if we accept that she had good reasons to be untrusting she was still being a terrible diplomat.

Liadrin: “Oh wow, we have a lot in common. Our people, too, have struggled in similar ways. Anything you need, just let us know. We and our Horde allies are here to help!”

Tyrande: “Let me be clear: we are here to fight the Legion, not to help you. Maybe you’ll live, maybe you’ll die.”

Hmmmm…who would I pick for my friend?

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121

Biological essentialist takes about the various races of Azeroth are pretty cringe.

Like, bro, they’re all people. We don’t need to start measuring the skullshapes of orcs to determine if they’re capable of empathy or w/e.

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