Of course.
But wait for Blizz to make Raid+. And M+ would become ordinary. But i dont think Blizz is willing to do this. It would just slap non-dungeon people.
Thats an insanely bad take.
Sure, it may be toxic, but the amount of sheer replayability and A FULL ENTIRE GEARING PATH besides Raid or Die or Pvp or Die is massive.
M+ is objectively among the best additions to the game.
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Lots of people love it. Why would you want it removed?
I hate raiding but I donât want raiding to be removed.
I stopped at the end of LegionâŚ
M+ design stops at +10, though. Everything past then is just more health and damage, itâs the equivalent of doing raids with no weapons equipped and then taking off more and more gear to simulate the M+ âmore health and damageâ shtick.
Doing CE with no weapons equipped is immeasurably more difficult than the high end of M+. Both are pretty pointless, though.
Every Mythic Sepulcher boss past Skolex is way more difficult than +20 keys, thatâs for sure.
Thatâs fair. It could be that it has been so long that I have been out of the CE game that I just donât get how much harder itâs gotten. I mean obviously I know it has. I just think about CE Garrosh and it was quite a few pulls and hard and stuff⌠but Iâd be terrified to do almost +30 level keys⌠hell I havenât even tried a 20. Maybe itâs that much harder, maybe I am selling myself short, idk.
So most of my guild, we do multiple keys per week, but itâs just for gear. Weâre not really into M+, weâre focused on Mythic raiding. So we just kept doing +15âs most of the season to make the great vault farming quick.
But we wanted the conduit thing, so we said okay, letâs try it. People say +20âs are rough but letâs give it a shot.
We were totally shocked at how incredibly easy +20 keys are. âTHIS is what people have been saying is so hard?â we all said. âEven Mythic Dausegne is harder than any of this.â
Well someone from the forums offered to let me tag along to their 20 keys so I can get portals, so maybe it wonât be as bad as I fear. 
They arenât bad at all, the difference between +15 and +20 keys seems pretty minimal.
My main takeaway from this revelation is that people like to talk up the difficulty of M+ a lot more than it is.
Now, +28 keys, or whatever? Maybe they really are hard, I have no idea, and no real opinion on the matter. But since the reward structure stops at +20, thatâs as far as Blizzard seems to have mapped things out, so past that people are doing it just to do it. But like I said, thatâs the same as doing Mythic Jailer with no weapons, youâre doing it just to do it.
Itâs like that Rextroy guy. Folks are in Rextroy territory, at that point. 
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That could be. I talk it up, at the levels I donât do because they scare me. I will agree though that after a certain level they keyâs legit do not feel any harder. 15s-17s (what I do) are brain dead easy, so it should be ok.
I donât want it removed. I just think itâs one of the worst things ever added.
I think your opinion is very wrong.
Guild wars 2 has it. Diablo has it and many other games have it too.
The difference between a 15 and a 20 for a mythic raider would feel a lot smaller than someone who struggles with mechanics or doesnât maximize their class. Past 10 itâs all about damage both incoming and outgoing, the core mechanics are already in place unlike going from heroic to mythic raid for example or even normal to heroic. Going from a 15 to a 20, there is a massive dps incline that you have to reach to time, and abilities that you could just ignore in a 15 will kill you in a 20. The further you go up, the more obvious this should be. The funny part about the argument is usually the people saying itâs so easy are heroic raiders who struggle to break 2500. Take a group of heroic raiders with you that are only doing 15âs and see if the difficulty in your 20âs spike. The people who talk up m+'s difficulty are referring to its scalability. You can push m+ to the point where it IS harder than anything mythic raid has to offer by virtue of scaling alone.
I donât mythic raid, and just started moving into 20âs a few weeks ago (although with the end of the tier coming Iâve drastically lost motivation to keep pushing with my main so donât think Iâll be worrying anymore about ksh) but Iâd say you are fortunate to have with you a strong group of players.
You are right on the loot. All my loot comes from m+.
But m+ is not fun and thatâs why we raid. Wow is about raiding so if you donât raid then there are many other games out there that have better experience than wow
Damage and health change strats. Safe strats stop working requiring new, more risky, but faster strats. Heroic and Mythic raids are often the same fight with layered on mechanics by comparison.
Left vs Right on streets changes in key level. Double angel in Spires is the norm on higher keys and you stop playing squad leaders in favor of the more scary helion pulls.
Some folks âmonkey see monkey doâ fast strats on lower keys but mostly thereâs no reason to use high key strats until you need to.
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I enjoy raiding because it is a dance that you practice and master.
I enjoy m+ because my close friends and I can jump in and have a good time while hanging out in discord.
Raids used to be that once a week guild fun that people prepare. But since blizzard keeps making raids to stressful people just donât bother with them.
Raids used to be like M+ mechanics wise. Boss has one mechanic after another eventually some smaller mechanics to deal with plus tanking mechanics. Now every boss has so many mechanics overlap each other. You have to move , heal or deal damage, every boss almost has mechanic that requires you to pair with someone and etc.
It takes all the fun from raids.
Anything with infinite scaling by definition will eventually be harder than anything static.
They could add infinite scaling to WQ and they would eventually be harder than CE.
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Well yeah, that was my point. The person I was replying to seems to think CE is the end all be all of difficulty and it just isnât.
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shut the front door!!
People play this game for fun!?!?!? /sarcasm
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