What have they done to rogues lol?

I recently started playing my rogue in DF to just get them leveled up as it’s been a few expansions since I really played one. They feel like the slowest most unenjoyable class to play now. Like they have almost zero mobility which I find to be pretty strange considering how much mobility all the other classes have now they they didn’t used to have.



Sub has shadowstep x2, vanish x2 and shortened cds when vanished is used, making it basically as mobile as any class can be…

Outlaw is basically a Ferrari, huge run speed, grapple hook, shadowstep x2… not sure what more mobility you would be asking for?

Assa is probably the least mobile spec out of all the rogue specs with only shadowstep x2 but still ok, not great but ok.

So not sure what mobility issue your reffereing too…


What have they done to rogues? Nothing.

Rogue mobility hasn’t changed much these past few expansions. However, Blizzard did give other classes more mobility, damage, and survivability. OMG, have you seen what they did with mages. It makes rogue feel like playing in a wheelchair.

Just another example of


the mobility abilities he probably didnt talent into or forgot to bind.

Also, if you really want to feel how different things are now, go play a few battlegrounds. The amount of cc and mobility that other classes have will blow your mind.


At max level sub I’m literally teleporting from mob to mob when I’m farming up my skinning points for the week. The mobility is nutty if you can reset stealth. Sub’s builder has a built in teleport to boot…

I would argue that shadowstep is one of the best movement abilities in the game. It instantly teleports you to friend or enemy with none of the bugs that crap like blink has had for years. Verticality also doesn’t matter, unlike charge. I don’t get path error messages when I’m porting around.

Grappling hook is everything that’s great about heroic leap and demonic leap.

The abilities are also thematic to the specs too imho.

Shadowstep is situationally amazing as a skillshot in combat, but claims about rogues having S-tier mobility in any other situation are mostly exaggerations compared to what other classes are capable of baseline/with bare-minimum investment. Sure, grappling hook is great, but is it as good as FSK? Double Shadowstep is great, but what are we giving up to get it? Hint: it’s damage. Sprint is fine, but hardly broken. You need a point to bring it to 1-minute, and it becomes a 2-minute emergency reserve ability untalented. Rogue mobility is simply okay.

Claims about us being unrivaled in movement, utility, survivability, and damage are basically myth at this point. That which we do have are things that we need maintained 90%+ to live fights. Meanwhile, other classes - mostly hybrids - have similar or better of each layered atop flatly better overall baseline survivability.

Additionally - and I’ve mentioned this a few times elsewhere - stuff like this preamble to the Ret rework just digs us further and further into the make-believe of class descriptions. Our mobility is fine, but hardly the gold standard.


Agreed, plenty of other classes have area of denial / slows / immunity to slows / multi forms of mobility. It’s whatever. It just isn’t cool when other classes constantly nag about things we rogues do.


Totally, yeah. I’ve said it in a few places over time, but my guess for the outcry and overnerfing stems from how it feels to get got by a rogue in PvP and how often streamers have just sorta perennially kneejerk’d “Rogue, S-tier!” assessments when forming up tier lists. Long stuns are memorable experiences. Shadowstep and suddenly being attacked out of stealth are memorable experiences. Toss tier list bloat on top, and you have yourself some severe bias that doesn’t have a ton of thought or data behind it. Have a look around, folks. The balance has clearly changed.


People tend to gravitate to the brightest lights much like bugs do. the lights are streamers and form a cultist opinion because, so n so did X.

  • There is always a rogue bias, the forums are a mistake of an opportunity to help people. They just come in and nag like 2 teens gawking.

  • Ex: Tried to help a dude as they were asking what to do against us Subtlety rogues, I offered ideas and gave different examples of what other classes CAN do to help. They decided to meme and type like a 15-year-old so yeah. I find more and more reasons to want to summon a meteor to hit the planet each day man.

  • People don’t use defensives, kite, or get team mates to shut down rogues. They don’t read abilities or utilize their full kit or terrain. They just log on and gripe about rogue when someone t-bagged their ancestors back in MOP or something.

Anyways, really hoping the soft rework we are getting provides non meme paths at least. and emphasizes core abilities.