Neither faction is squeaky clean in their morality or past actions.
But people need to stop pretending Sylvanas is a benevolent Queen who has everyones best interest in mind.
She’s a ruthless and tactical leader, whos motivations are for her survival, which just happens to mean the survival of those under her, she “cares” about you, because it relates to her survival. You are as she says, another arrow in her quiver.
Exactly. If Sylvanas was offered eternal life in exchange for the life of every single member of the Horde, the Horde would be gone faster than you can blink.
Garrosh wasnt liked since Cata, so I would disagree with that. The dialogue always made it clear he was not a clear favorite, even before mop.
The biggest difference between horde and alliance leaders is, the horde were forced to deal with the bad decisions of their leaders. The alliance leaders issues is sheer incompetence to a level that is unheard of. I’m not sure which is worse, but I’m quite sure nobody wins the debate.
Zappyboi is a garbage meme character that needs to die.
I really want to know what hole all these worms that actually think Sylvanas represents the true Horde are crawling from.
Saurfang embodies the Horde, he is no traitor - It is Sylvanas who blighted her own troops and raised them, shortly after attempted genocide.
Even Garrosh killed one of his higher-ups for an atrocity of that level in Stonetalon.
Because Blizzard’s writing team doesn’t know how to just let a character grow. Look at Zelling and all of the potential he embodied, he had every reason to not be shot in the scene, but he got shot anyway for what I assume was shock-value’s sake.
It’s lazy and uninteresting, but it’s nothing new. This has been a thing since Kael’thas. It’s never been good, and I don’t understand how the same people who wrote MoP can be doing this bad of a job.
Then why did you say he was Alliance? It doesn’t matter that his sister is. You have said nothing about why that would matter.
And I disagree that murdering civilians, trying genocide, and denying a forsaken their free will is the right thing to do. (Also, Baine spared those who surrendered)
Yeah, but the Alliance aren’t exactly enemies. Sylvanas only made them enemies.
And making sure newly raised Forsaken have their own conscience is not for the Horde?
How is Saurfang doing that? Elaborate.
Also, nothing on how Jaina is staying the Alliance’s hand?
But the Horde kept following him until he tried to execute Vol’jin and purge the trolls from ‘his’ Horde.
That’s how it normally works. Your leader normally has to do something really dumb. Luckily ours has, so we have had more leaders. Would be nice if sheer incompetence was enough, but meh. Although to be fair to garrosh, he wasnt doing a bad job in terms of conquest before he went crazy.
Sylvanas is a much more incompetent version of garrosh.
Once again. I dislike both. Just because I think Baine is a loser doesn’t mean I support Sylvanas.
The Alliance and Horde are definitely enemies.
Sourfang was released from Prison by the Player, Princess T, First Arcanist, and Rokhan.
He refused to go.
Anduin tells Sourfang that he needs his help to take out Sylvanas, and frees him. Sourfang immediately jumps into action.
Horde leaders free Sourfang = Does not interest him
Anduin tells him that the Alliance needs his help = Jumps into action.
Jaina just lead an assault that’s main purpose was to remove a leadership figure from the Horde side, cause massive loss of life, and kill enough people to cause destabilization and remove an Ally.
Is that really “staying the Alliance’s hand”?
Leader keeping those under then in the dark to avoid leaks. Is this new?
Leader keeping an eye out for potential assassins and mutineers again Is this anything new?
And Garrosh dabbled in old god magic.
And history has been filled with leaders who have died when an advisor stuck a knife in their back.
Let us take chess for an example. A several tactics to win at chess involve trapping the enemy king between their pieces and yours. As such while most pieces only see enemies to kill, Kings (the leader) has to keep an eye on not only the enemy’s pieces but their own.
Sylvanas is not only keeping an eye on her enemies but her advisors so they do not turn against her that is why she was able to arrest Baine so quickly and thus stop what dethroned Garrosh.
Wishful thinking. She has shown nothing that makes me think she is intelligent. She is paranoid, power hungry, and desperate. I see nothing that even hints at tactically intelligent. Her only saving grace is the alliance is even more incompetent. We have seen no fruit from her labor. And Talanji gives more credit(much more) of the alliance of the zandalari to Baine, so not even that is her doing.
“Zappyboi” was never cool
Then why have you supported her? Cough “Betraying the Horde” cough
How?
Because Anduin offered to back him. That’s why. You are twisting things to suit a narrative.
No, but telling the Alliance leaders to not wipe out the Horde presence on Zandalar because they just lost a king is.
Where did I support Sylvanas?
Right. Sourfang didn’t want to rebel until he had Alliance backing
Got it. So massive death is fine. Just not complete death.
Read. And address the rest of the post.
I am addressing your post. Where did I support Sylvanas? You stated I did.
who’s going to tell him that the answer lies in what he quoted?
The Alliance and Horde were not at War when Sylvanas burned Teldrassil. No, it was not a legitimate military target. No, Stormheim was not “breaking the peace” - the Alliance had intel in Azsuna that Sylvanas was planning to Blight the Vrykyl/Val’kyr - the Blight was outlawed.
On top of that, even if, as Horde constantly claim with no factual backup, that Azsuna is not before Stormheim - we still saw the Blight on her ships, again, THE BLIGHT WAS OUTLAWED BY EVERY FACTION LEADER, ALLIANCE AND HORDE, after the Wrathgate - Thus, her ships because legitimate targets by the Skyfire, to stop the use of the Blight
So yes, it was Genocide. Burning the city with the vast majority of the Night Elf population inside of it is Genocide. It’s literally the definition of Genocide.
Sylvanas committed Genocide against the Alliance, WHILE THEY WERE AT PEACE and Horde are defending her, and it needs to stop.
And if you want to get even more technical, the Horde broke the peace in Ashran, when they attacked the Alliance exploratory expeditions.
On top of that, Horde also claim the Alliance broke it in Silithus due to what happens in-game, despite the fact the books canonize it as the Alliance not attacking the Horde there, it was infact the Goblins that attacked the Alliance.
I am really honestly waiting for you to make a real statement. I can only feel that you are dodging the question because you know things will play out a certain way.
you seem very passionate about this. head tilt