I figure a worth while discussion to have is what things about shadowlands were really, really good that should be preserved?
For me the starting campaign questing that very clearly showed which quests were part of the campaign and which were side quests that could be considered optional. That combined with Threads of Fate as an option.
The other was the quality of the open world art especially and a lot of the dungeon and raid environments. The art was especially fantastic and immersive. Very high quality. Iâm not a visual artist so I canât say specifically what was great about it, just that I really loved it.
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This was confirmed in an interview as being something theyâre keeping forward, which is great :>
I think the open world progression systems like the Cyphers of the First Ones are worth keeping. The main problem with cyphers was the timegating (which I personally didnât mind much at all) and catchup for alts, but those are problems that can be addressed :>
Rares being relevant even if you have collected their rare item is also something I think is worth preserving. Whether theyâre dropping a bit of anima, reputation, some other currency!
Treasure chests like theyâre done in Zereth Mortis are great. Assuming that theyâre fixing the map markers disappearing when another player loots them anyway :>
Oh, and just catchup in general, but that needs to be a smidgen better than it was in Shadowlands I think!
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I think a lot of things were done right in Shadowlands! I love the Great Vault, and I love that the tier sets could be acquired via mythic+ and PvP and the Creation Catalyst. The one thing Iâd want to see changed about tier set acquisition is to add some bad luck protection, because one person in my guild farmed the raid bosses on multiple difficulties and (nearly) filled his Vault every week in search of tier and didnât get his 2-piece until week 8, and that was extremely demoralizing for him.
The Covenant system has its faults, but I love that weâre now in a place where many (most?) class specs have multiple interesting builds. Iâve played Holy Paladin as Kyrian, Venthyr, and Necrolord. They play very differently and are all viable, at least for someone like me who does AOTC raiding, low-CR arenas/RBGs, and keys up to +20. I donât like the clunkiness of the system and all the moving parts. Having to return to Oribos to switch covenants is a hassle. I could also do without conduits and soulbinds. My loadouts for different types of content have gotten so complicated I now use an addon called BTWLoadouts to manage them.
But having multiple viable builds for a spec is fantastic and fun, and I hope that is something that will be preserved by the new talent system in Dragonflight, without all the annoying moving parts we have in Shadowlands.
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Hello,
For me the best things to preserve form SL is the transmog set from covenants. I like the way to win a transmog when I get more renowned.
And also the idea of developping a language in a new world and unlock quests.
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I would miss convoke as a druid really. Like it always goes with borrowed power something is missing⌠I still miss the shorter cd on solarbeam when you interrupt something successfull from legion artefact weapon.
I loved the covenant Tmogs because they look very pretty but I donât like the way how to achieve them, because if you want everything its a big grind. Especially if you consider things like the nightfae garden, the kyrian challenges, the abomination factory or the venthyr court. I am still not done with all these things.
Great Vault is nice because itâs cool to have choices ,even if i think that you still have to do to much to fill your vault, if you want to get every slot. But itâs sure an improvement to what the chest has been before. I also like the option to take the coins if your vault is total useless and exchange them for something.
I also liked the way legendaries were designed this addon, because you didnât rely on dropluck and you could choose what you need first instead of grinding and hope the right legendary will drop for you. Some Sources for legendaries where not so good for example world bosses that only show up every 4 weeks.
The change into an ingame mythic + score and that you only need a certain score for the season mount was also a good thing for me. So you donât need to grind the last missing key until you finally beat the timer. I think thereâs a lot of options in the future with this score as there is allready a title for the best players of each season.
I also want the catalyst to come back it is a very great way to obtain sets for solo or/and casual gamers.
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Use the baseline structure of the Ember Court to revamp Fishing and Archaeology:
- One-time unlock NPCs via questing (not too simple, not too complex), not the repetitive RSVPs from EC.
- Give them different interests and strengths.
- Set up your comp for a (weekly) scenario, unique. Maybe have more mondane ones for repetition.
- 30+ minutes long, different events occuring maybe based on your roster, playing out and benefitting each NPC differently.
- Maybe unlock Quests for each NPC and new scenarios in the process, progression tree etc.
- Weave in fitting rewards and settings while also progressing yours and the NPCs âskillâ. Avoid the âyou need more skill pointsâ situation by clear unlocks of new stuff, not checking if a gating value has been met.
For Fishing:
Charter a boat and maybe (besides the big fishing trip) run into pirates/monsters of the high seas or do some sweet water fishing at river banks/coastal lines all across Azeroth etc. More than just the usual dropping of the bait and waiting for the signal. Throwing out nets, taking care of equipment, exploring the areas for better spots etc. Pandaren and Tuskarr NPCs could serve as more prominent figures (not exclusive) for the setting.
For Archaeology:
Instead of dropping the survey equipment explore the area of the scenario, find clues (visual as well as text, maybe decifer given the right NPC) and over time step by step find/recover whatever artifact/Information. Maybe have confrontations/run into other factions but avoid turning it into a conflict. This is not about grave robbing, more about preserving and curating. The Explorers League as well as different NPCs from different Xpacs would fit (i.e. the Highmountain Tauren apprentice from the Legion weekly).
When it comes to scenarios specifically this could be an opportunity to make better use of the island expedition locations. Of course youâd remove the azerite grind from this version and tune down the mob density/spawn waves to a point where it is fitting the scenario.
3 Likes
Regarding the cosmetics:
This is more of a âkeeping them appealing to returning playersâ situation. In itâs current version the Sanctum upgrades are too clunky with too much of a fixed grind investment for new players or rather once SL has passed and is side content in the next xpac. It shouldnât take you 10s of hours to unlock the anima bonusses so you can unlock stuff more efficient.
Same goes for the âLost Soulâ grind which results in endless backânâforth travel between the Sanctums and the Maw. In this case there should be a simple gathering mechanic and turn-in quests for different values (see Ashran/AV turn-in ratios). You need almost 1000 Lost Souls to unlock all Sanctum upgrades on all Covenants which represents up to 50 marathons to and through the Maw/Torghast.
For the Korthia Daily Quest cosmetic reward sets itâs also better if their drop chance increases or the reward distribution is shifted. You donât need to keep gold, research or âold gearâ (same model as the Stygia acc. token gear) as a reward when the main focus is progressing towards your Anima unlocks or pure cosmetic rewards from these dailies.
If these measures are taken the post SL experience for new or returning players will be much better than dealing with high fixed time investment or extreme measures of RNG outcome. Keep in mind that for the Korthia cosmetics the right NPCs/faction has to be up and also reward the right things.
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The vault was a really great change compared to just having 1 random roll before. More improvements would be nice though because you can sometimes roll like 3+ of the same item type and more often than not itâs a slot you donât or canât use because of legendaries or because you already have a better one. Being able to target slots would be great I think.
This current patchâs structure also felt very nice for once, not being forced to do things you donât like. The memory was really the only thing you would be interested if you want it at high ilvl and that was very simple to get through wqs because they didnât take hour+ like previous patch zones. Catalyst wouldve be great if it was active from the start, I literally canât use anything from it on my main because I have same or better gear already.
The valor system coming back is nice with the current implementation but it would be nice if the weekly cap was a higher. On the same topic, the 9.0.5 âaccidentalâ addition where alts could benefit from it was great, Iâm still not sure why it was removed? Even if you can upgrade on alts you still had to do a lot of dungeons to do so, the only difference was that on alts you could do ANY dungeons instead of targeting all of them at least once just to get score : /
Torghast ironically was really fun in beta until it got absolutely ruined when it got pushed to live.
The leveling options were great between questline vs threads of fate, but only having half the dungeons made it a bit tedious. The whole pre-50 leveling revamp was also nice, but only having 1 expansion at a time dungeons not so much.
When it comes to classes I like that we didnât get passive procs of damage from random sources this expansion ala twilight dev/infinite stars/crucible/neck/azerite and what not and I hope it stays this way 
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The Creation Catalyst and Synthesis Forge mechanics should absolutely be preserved.
The Creation Catalyst acts as a much needed bad luck protection against tier set drops, especially for raids that are imbalanced towards one of the tokens. For example, my raid team has only 3 people who use the Dreadful tokens, despite having almost 30 raiders on the team. We were among the last on the team to complete our set bonuses, but thanks to the Creation Catalyst, there was never a feeling that we were going to be left in the dust. Instead, the feeling was: We will catch up eventually no matter what.
The Synthesis Forgeâs mechanics should be preserved because it feels far better to gain incremental progress towards mounts and pets than it does to pray for an low chance drop off a mob. I gave up doing Korthia once I had unlocked what I needed there for raiding, because I hadnât received a single one of the rare mount drops, despite killing the rares daily. In fact, there are still more than a few of the base Shadowlands rares that have mounts I havenât obtained yet. At this point, itâs beyond frustrating as a collector. In contrast, Iâm still heading to Zereth Mortis every day despite having reached Exalted for the Augment Rune, because I know I can spend as much or as little free time there as I have on a given day and make progress towards obtaining a new mount or pet.
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Cypher of the First Ones/Pocopoc
- Unlocking things to make the open-world more interesting is always a win for me. Being able to upgrade and customize our friend Pocopoc was really enjoyable. Using him in battle to get heals or do damage, or to open chests, makes the world slightly less lonely.
Synthesis Forge
- Just like Saormash mentioned, having the ability to unlock new cosmetics at your own pace rather than feeling ââforcedââ to kill specific rares to have a daily chance at a mount or pet is way more satisfying.
Covenant Sanctum Upgrades
- I enjoyed unlocking the transport network and anima conductor specifically. It was really great early on in the expansion to be able to summon specific rares for other people, made me me feel like I was contributing to something, in a way. The only downside to this system was the fact that it wasnât account-wide, when it shouldâve been, at the very least, for characters of the same covenant.
Covenant 'âMini-Gamesâ'
(Referring to the Ember Court, Path of Ascension, Abominable Stitching and the Queenâs Conservatory)
- Liked the concept. Wasnât really a fan of the Night Fae one however, as there were little interaction with the garden itself. As a Necrolord, I enjoyed being able to make and customize my own constructs (in a similar way that I enjoy Pocopoc), and do open-world content with them. The Kyrian game was the most enjoyable for me, felt quite challenging to complete the entire meta achievement (although, please make it account-wide so that I donât have to do it again on alts). Itâs also a game you canât cheese by being overgeared or playing a specific class, as you just fight with your three soulbinds. I havenât had the chance to try out the Ember Court very often, so I canât really speak much on it. However, Iâm hoping to see some sort of fun games tied to certain factions in the future to earn more cosmetics, achievements, or even rep.
Zone Designs
- Enjoyed how the zones looked and felt in Shadowlands. Loved seeing ââeliteââ enemy areas around where the four original world bosses spawn, reminded me a lot of those questing areas in Classic where you preferably needed a group to quest there. Itâs for similar reasons that I enjoyed the Maw, itâs a zone that really felt dangerous, especially with the high density of mobs and elites - note that I wasnât a fan of the zone, but those are aspects I liked about it. Korthia on the other hand was one of my least favorite zones, didnât enjoy the aesthetics very much nor the actual gameplay in there. I think ZM was a great improvement on how the open-world should be played out.
Covenant Spells
- Iâd like to see some covenant spells stick around in Dragonflight. Things like Convoke or Divine Toll were very cool buttons to press. Iâm also gonna miss Soulshape, considering its various forms have become collectibles for some. I know for sure some conduits and passives weâve seen in SL are going to come back in that new talent tree, but about covenant spells?
Tier Sets
- Tier sets coming back is wonderful. Being able to get it from various sources, including the Creation Catalyst, is pretty cool too. I do think its acquisition could be improved, as raiders can have multiple chances to see pieces drop for them in a single weekly lockout; key runners and PvPers however only have a single chance to get them once a week, through the Vault - and itâs not guaranteed. I think the Catalystâs main purposes shouldâve been 1.) Catch-up for alts/returning players, and 2.) Optimizing your gear stats/ilvl. Though Iâm sure for a lot of people, including myself, the Catalyst was only a way for them to finally get their first or maybe second piece, after not being able to get tier from the Vault.
3 Likes
Iâm reviving this old thread to mention Bonus Valor. Great mechanic, please keep in future tiers! Now that the valor cap has been lifted, this has been really helpful for the pug scene in mythic+. Highly skilled players have an incentive to run keys with less skilled players. Weâve had pugs with over 3000 IO join our 15 keys and itâs great. They help carry, we learn new tricks from them, and typically Iâve found them to be polite and helpful.
The downside is that it can be harder to get into keys when youâre competing against people who are overqualified. My destro lock who has timed a couple of 20âs in guild keys canât get into pugs over 15-16. And I understand, because why take a 2600 IO lock if you can get one with 2900 IO. If I canât get into pugs, I can always list my own key, and I need a bunch of 16s for score so itâs fair.
Overall, big thumbs up for Bonus Valor.
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Im hoping they keep adding new pvp enchants every season instead of the 1 enchant per expansion
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Torgast (hear me out).
Torgast has gotten a bit of a bad rap. Weâve all heard the term âChoregastâ. But I actually thing Torgast had alot of good ideas, and I would hate for engaging solo activities to die because of Torgastâs mistakes.
What Togart did right
I love the idea of fun, interesting and challenging things to work on solo. Most of WoWâs solo content is very very easy. Leveling and questing are fun for the story and the promise of having a new toon to play at end game, but the actual gameplay is pretty faceroll and wouldnât hold up as a stand alone experience. Even for hardcore raiders, PVPers and M+ pushers, there is times when your team just isnât online, or you are feeling anti-social and just want to play on your own. Torgast was an answer to this, and with some improvements, could have been a fun, challenging stand alone experience that players wanted to do on their own time.
Why is fell short
The need to complete it in order to get your legendarily killed the potential of Torgast. It made it a mandatory activity for every player, every week. You felt forced to engage with it whether you enjoyed it or not and had to engage with it on a schedule that was dictated by the weekly reward. It kinda sucked the joy of out it.
If they had disconnected Torgast from the mandatory legendary item acquisition earlier, it could have been a nice item on the WoW content menu to engage with when your friends arnât online, and you just want play alone, and offered a unique challenge to complete solo.
Going forward
I hope the devs donât look at Torgast as a failure of end game solo content. I hope they continue to give us new and challenging ways to play the game beyond world content.
Bringing back mage tower was a great addition in this regard.
Like we get new raids and dungeons, I would love to see new solo content being created so solo and group players alike have something more engaging to progress on their own time.
1 Like