Im getting into raiding and have been leading pugs successfully lately. Bought a mic and all, looking to improve, what are some good raid leading advice/insight.
Had one player thank me for bringing a bunch of randos to down normal ghuun under 3 pulls, felt good to hear.
Don't hit on / persue raid member's wives or significant others....
The biggest thing for a RL doing pugs is, I think, to be patient with everyone. Pugs are often filled with people who may not be as familiar with the fights as members of static raid teams might be.
Know the fight mechanics yourself, and be able to explain the mechanics so that everyone can understand them. Be ready to call out incoming mechanic executions if you need to, and don't kick people for messing up once or twice.
Know the fight mechanics yourself, and be able to explain the mechanics so that everyone can understand them. Be ready to call out incoming mechanic executions if you need to, and don't kick people for messing up once or twice.
Getting the right group of players. Balancing patience, exasperation, the time (rarely) to privately kick someone in the pants.
* MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS ON BOARD WITH THE TYPE OF LOOT DISTRIBUTION YOU PLAN TO USE *
Don't raid too much, "WE'RE <UBER PWNG HARDCORE > guild! We raid M-Su 7 PM to 11 PM Server! That's right! We raid every night!"
Or too little, "Hi, we're <Pals for Life> We raid T from 7 pm server to 8 pm server."
Plan for the worst (Lead tank is sick), hope for the best. You're going to wipe, and you WILL have loot disagreements. (Of sorts)
Here, this clip from YT should help visualize what it's like being a RL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8
* MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS ON BOARD WITH THE TYPE OF LOOT DISTRIBUTION YOU PLAN TO USE *
Don't raid too much, "WE'RE <UBER PWNG HARDCORE > guild! We raid M-Su 7 PM to 11 PM Server! That's right! We raid every night!"
Or too little, "Hi, we're <Pals for Life> We raid T from 7 pm server to 8 pm server."
Plan for the worst (Lead tank is sick), hope for the best. You're going to wipe, and you WILL have loot disagreements. (Of sorts)
Here, this clip from YT should help visualize what it's like being a RL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8
Even tempered.10/31/2018 10:26 AMPosted by GormashHad one player thank me for bringing a bunch of randos to down normal ghuun under 3 pulls, felt good to hear.
Nothing worse than have a RL fly off the handle and start yelling/Cursing out players in voice chat.
10/31/2018 10:35 AMPosted by VarassaEven tempered.10/31/2018 10:26 AMPosted by GormashHad one player thank me for bringing a bunch of randos to down normal ghuun under 3 pulls, felt good to hear.
Nothing worse than have a RL fly off the handle and start yelling/Cursing out players in voice chat.
On the bright side, people can post it on Youtube
Be precise and concise with your leading the group. If anybody has questions, find a way to do it simply and instructively, especially when explaining the mechanics. Nobody really wants to sit for 10 minutes to listen to one mechanic alone, then another, then another, etc. Knowing the boss fight to be able to explain it in such short terms can go a long way.
Time, experience, patience. Don't be afraid to put your foot down when it's needed.
I've been in a variety of heroic and mythic progression guilds. Yes, it depends on the type of raid leader you're looking for, but one thing that doesn't get highlighted enough is discipline.
While being nice and patient helps, the imposition of control and discipline to not deal with nonsensical time-wasting is what drives success. This manner of discipline is easily seen in mythic progression guilds where they don't deal with nonsense. I think it helps in heroic guilds too.
While being nice and patient helps, the imposition of control and discipline to not deal with nonsensical time-wasting is what drives success. This manner of discipline is easily seen in mythic progression guilds where they don't deal with nonsense. I think it helps in heroic guilds too.
Be fair, be patient, know when to lighten the mood and when to push. Research the fights so you know how to make groups for specific fights quickly. Don't be too quick to abandon a strat and don't be afraid to ask what dps/healers/ranged saw and dealt with. Know the ultimate decision is on you. Don't try to do it all. Get to know your core group and assign someone to help with call outs.
At the beginning of Uldir I had a meeting with my team where we discussed expectations from both sides. I told them that to be a team in raid we needed to work as a team and that included farming and contributing to the feasts and flasks that are provided.
We have NO loot issues. If someone gets something that is a slight upgrade but a large upgrade for another team member they offer it up without thinking twice. We play with the "an upgrade for one is an upgrade for all mentality" even when it comes to BOE's.
Keep things moving and keep people focused.
At the beginning of Uldir I had a meeting with my team where we discussed expectations from both sides. I told them that to be a team in raid we needed to work as a team and that included farming and contributing to the feasts and flasks that are provided.
We have NO loot issues. If someone gets something that is a slight upgrade but a large upgrade for another team member they offer it up without thinking twice. We play with the "an upgrade for one is an upgrade for all mentality" even when it comes to BOE's.
Keep things moving and keep people focused.
I know the patience be kind and firm stuff is a given. Don't forget to "trim" dead wait. It's not being mean. Like for instance a person does really well on mechanics but his damage is not helping to push the fight to the end. Maybe his gear is amazing but does not know his rotation well. It may seem like an a hole move but yeah. The same can be said for the opposite. The dps is amazing but the person can't for the life of him stay alive b/c of failing mechanics even after mulitiple attempts of seeing the fight. I personally hate leading raids b/c although I could explain fights I don't want to be the a hole who has to get rid of people.
Great, thanks for the answers!
A mediocre raider that's there every night is far far far more valuable than some amazing one that you can't rely on at all.
1) be very clear to set expectations for the run. In this way, those who need to, drop out at the beginning.
2) express an understanding of not knowing how to do things, and that it's safe to speak up.
3) if you do intend to cull low performers, let everyone know up front that you will be trying to do the bosses as is, but if you can't you will ask some players to step out. I do encourage you to invite them back in for the next boss, or at least make it clear that they are welcome next time you run.
4) if you have time to spare, offer to hang around a bit after and take them on a tour of Warcraft logs, and IV, in that order. - often times people are very sure what they are doing is "best", pull a quick comparison log and show them the facts. It's very helpful, and breaks down the natural resistance to change.
5) If you find some you specifically want to mentor - ask for an in raid screenshot. Sometimes this is all you need to see to understand why the player is struggling.
6) be compassionate and stop when you cease to enjoy what you do. :)
Best wishes. It's a very rewarding activity and good for the game.
2) express an understanding of not knowing how to do things, and that it's safe to speak up.
3) if you do intend to cull low performers, let everyone know up front that you will be trying to do the bosses as is, but if you can't you will ask some players to step out. I do encourage you to invite them back in for the next boss, or at least make it clear that they are welcome next time you run.
4) if you have time to spare, offer to hang around a bit after and take them on a tour of Warcraft logs, and IV, in that order. - often times people are very sure what they are doing is "best", pull a quick comparison log and show them the facts. It's very helpful, and breaks down the natural resistance to change.
5) If you find some you specifically want to mentor - ask for an in raid screenshot. Sometimes this is all you need to see to understand why the player is struggling.
6) be compassionate and stop when you cease to enjoy what you do. :)
Best wishes. It's a very rewarding activity and good for the game.
Be patient,
Be kind
Treat people like adults
If you need to talk to someone about screw ups, consider not doing it in front of everyone else. Public humiliation isn't fun
Explain new mechanics, but don't go on too long, you'll lose people's attention.
Know how to set the fights up ahead of time (ie, Ghuun orb handlers)
Know how to call things during a fight.
Have a thick skin. There's always going to be that guy who won't lead but thinks you're doing it wrong.
This is absolutely correct. Set an expectation for your group and insist people follow it.
For us, we don't let people argue with the raid lead during raid. If they have a problem with a strat, or want to try something different, the time to bring this concerns up is before or after.
Don't let people argue about loot. Stop other conflicts before they get too heated. If Bob and Joe can't stand each other... That's fine, but they need to act like adults and keep the peace during raid. Bad tempers/attitudes can wreck a group.
Weed out the individuals who bring lots of drama.
This too! Loyalty to the group is important. Yes absolutely performance matters, but the guy who shows up every raid night with an awesome team oriented attitude, even if his dps isn't the best, is going to be a far more valuable member in the long run than one might think.
Be kind
Treat people like adults
If you need to talk to someone about screw ups, consider not doing it in front of everyone else. Public humiliation isn't fun
Explain new mechanics, but don't go on too long, you'll lose people's attention.
Know how to set the fights up ahead of time (ie, Ghuun orb handlers)
Know how to call things during a fight.
Have a thick skin. There's always going to be that guy who won't lead but thinks you're doing it wrong.
10/31/2018 10:38 AMPosted by FaustimI've been in a variety of heroic and mythic progression guilds. Yes, it depends on the type of raid leader you're looking for, but one thing that doesn't get highlighted enough is discipline.
While being nice and patient helps, a lack of control and discipline to not deal with nonsensical time-wasting is what drives success. This manner of discipline is easily seen in mythic progression guilds where they don't deal with nonsense. I think it helps in heroic guilds too.
This is absolutely correct. Set an expectation for your group and insist people follow it.
For us, we don't let people argue with the raid lead during raid. If they have a problem with a strat, or want to try something different, the time to bring this concerns up is before or after.
Don't let people argue about loot. Stop other conflicts before they get too heated. If Bob and Joe can't stand each other... That's fine, but they need to act like adults and keep the peace during raid. Bad tempers/attitudes can wreck a group.
Weed out the individuals who bring lots of drama.
10/31/2018 11:21 AMPosted by SnowfoxA mediocre raider that's there every night is far far far more valuable than some amazing one that you can't rely on at all.
This too! Loyalty to the group is important. Yes absolutely performance matters, but the guy who shows up every raid night with an awesome team oriented attitude, even if his dps isn't the best, is going to be a far more valuable member in the long run than one might think.
What ever you do don't give up your raid ID to anyone or you'll get kicked from your own raid you made.
10/31/2018 10:49 AMPosted by IllionusI know the patience be kind and firm stuff is a given. Don't forget to "trim" dead wait. It's not being mean. Like for instance a person does really well on mechanics but his damage is not helping to push the fight to the end. Maybe his gear is amazing but does not know his rotation well. It may seem like an a hole move but yeah. The same can be said for the opposite. The dps is amazing but the person can't for the life of him stay alive b/c of failing mechanics even after mulitiple attempts of seeing the fight. I personally hate leading raids b/c although I could explain fights I don't want to be the a hole who has to get rid of people.
It's easier to do when you give the person someone to go to for help fixing their issues. That way whether they get back on the team or not is really in their own hands.
Heafty dose of patience. You'll need it.
Also I'd recommend getting good officers to help spread the work load out. Tasking them with doing homework for fights or making sure you have consumables ect.
Good help will make it easier all around. Learn to delegate!
Also I'd recommend getting good officers to help spread the work load out. Tasking them with doing homework for fights or making sure you have consumables ect.
Good help will make it easier all around. Learn to delegate!
10/31/2018 11:44 AMPosted by LathanderHeafty dose of patience. You'll need it.
Also I'd recommend getting good officers to help spread the work load out. Tasking them with doing homework for fights or making sure you have consumables ect.
Good help will make it easier all around. Learn to delegate!
But remember you can delegate authority but you cannot delegate responsibility. In the end it's your responsibility to make sure it all comes together in a nice, cohesive form of progression.
Learn to distinguish between ranged and melee when giving raid commands.