I agree but the bold portion is what make me think that the are specialied in transforming with a basic or less extensive knowledge of the rest of druidism. We need to see them doing more. I barely play horde but I think the should be a quest line for new Zandalari druid players that gives context on their brand of druidism.
It does seem that way doesn’t it. They are called war druids. The Cenarion druids can obviously fight (W3 and War of Thorns proved that) but it’s not their immediate focus unless need be.
Agreed and due to Gonk I think it’s more so in fearl/guardin.
Agreed.
Agree again.
In legion they corrupted the idol, so maybe it’s like her power base in nature was stolen? But maybe it is different with her.
That’s why I said a little further down that they weaponize nature. Druid forms are established as being the result of a strong connection to nature. Which means they’d have to be pretty in tune with nature in order to pull them off. And since nature is the source of their power, they’d have to maintain balance, even if it is for relatively “selfish” reasons.
Unfortunately, as a Horde player, I can confirm there’s practically zip information on Zandalari druids outside the initial Zuldazar quests you work with them. So far we only see druids in feral or guardian form, which doesn’t tell us much about their nature prowess aside from that they’re at least in tune with the instincts of those forms. The thing is, most druid NPCs we encounter are either cats or bears. I’ve actually never run into Balance or Resto druids outside the druid campaign or the Darkshore Warfront (though I’ve only seen Druids of the Branch there so far; I don’t think there are any Druids of the Moon and I’m pretty sure I’d notice a bunch of boomies wandering around).
I really hope we eventually see Zandalari Resto druids just so we can lay the whole connection to nature debate to rest (pun or may not be intended). I’d honestly love to see Lun’alai have more than a backround role. But just making the Raptari druids more visible would be great; I just realized I never saw them during the Zandalar Forever! scenario aside from following them out of the city. The Prelates make up all the background characters.
Does the Alliance side of BoD have any Zandalari druid mobs? I definitely didn’t see any of them in the background on the Horde side, and that makes no sense considering they are a large part of the Zandalari military.
Blizz, why do you have to keep burning druids that aren’t night elves like that?
This is making me wish even more Allied races had an actual starting zone, instead of just a cinematic and getting dumped into the capital.
Joke’s on you because I wasn’t, as you can see by the nice discussion I’m having with someone else in here. Starting from the post you claimed was trolling. And I explained what I meant already so…yeah, I can’t take you seriously at all. You only cherry picked things anyway.
And I was talking about not seeing them on the Warfront, which is a BfA thing. Feral, Guardian, and Resto druids were all present on Darkshore, but I didn’t see a single Balance.
Another reason I don’t believe in using gameplay mechanics to parse out how “complete” a toolkit Zandalari have like OP was doing (I’m still confused because he seemed to be jumping back and forth between using actual lore and what we see gameplay-wise, but I doubt I’m getting an answer because apparently asking for clarification is “trolling”).
We don’t see any NPC druid period using the balance toolit.
Look, there is no clear evidence beyond personal opinion that any race is more ‘druid’ than any other. All races will have had their on tradition influenced by cultural leanings. It is a fact that in game the NEs were called out on overlooking the day aspect of nature to a large extent with their traditional druidic custom. There is also nothing to suggest the NEs have any real dealings with Drust style of druidism. Nature magic can be and probably is a large field. NEs have mastered part of it for sure but that doesn’t mean they have even come close to mastering all of it.
It is like other forms of magic. Orcs and tauren aren’t the be all and end all of shamanic knowledge and skill. Pandarian, Dwarves and Draenei aren’t inherently inferior or less skilled shaman. Arcane mastery is a wide field with many specialities. Kael’thas was renown for his mastery of barrier magic while the Nightborne have telemancy down to a fine art.
As for the actual point of this thread, we don’t know and you cant say either way because until Blizzard makes a call on it, it is entirely up in the air. There is no factual lore argument to state that either a positive or negative is true. Yeah, Tyrande is Elune’s chosen but the Nightborne were part of the NEs back before the NEs became Elune’s chosen people and Elune could be really fickle for all we know.
In short any claim against or for is purely opinion and preference at this point.
I fail to see how tht’s trolling because that implies I’m trying to get a rise out of you or am pranking you, neither of which is what’s happening here. Or I guess if you seriously got mad over that, I don’t know how you are going to make it in the world.
Alternately, you’re the one trolling me because you keep using circular logic. Because I asked what the heck you’re referencing (because you keep insisting your claims are stated by lore but then jump to stuff that’s limited by game mechanics) therefore I’m a troll. Which is also how your logic with druids has been going in this entire convo.
Your logic for Cenarions being the “best” druid boils down to “because lore says so therefore they are the best” while failing to specify where the heck lore says so. You didn’t respond to any of my arguments pointing out that lore didn’t specify it.
Or any arguments period; you seem awfully fixated on calling me a troll, in fact, instead of actually looking at other arguments against yours. Except for one that you think you could argue over, but you ignored my counterpoint on that one too.
Yeah, get off your high horse and either bring up your counterpoints or stay in your “Cenarions are objectively the best druids” corner and leave this convo alone.
I am not going to respond if I see another post going “you’re a troll because you asked this”.
Actually, please do enlighten us all on why that is a troll question. Please, go right ahead and expose me as the darn troll I am.
And sorry, “it’s a troll question because it’s a troll question” is not an answer. Please demonstrate basic critical thinking skills, thank you.
They believe in having access to every Cloth Caster because Casters are their shtick.
But they could access the Light in an entirely scholarly, academic manner, akin to how Gnomes do. They’d understand it as a fundamental part of the universe, but not in a philosophical sense. Same goes for Void.
There are three priestly specs: Light, Shadow and Discipline.
Elven Priests, Elune aside, are about scholarship, teaching, and perpetuating culture. The discovery of Arcane magic was achieved by the priestly caste of ancient Kaldorei - this is why magical ley-tapping structures in Quel’thalas are still called Sanctums.
Priests are just the scholars who tap forces other than the Arcane (or Fel), more scientist than naturalist (and lacking any connection to the Wild Gods, hence not Druids).
Actually the Tomb of Sargeras was the Temple of Elune and you see all across the Broken Isles temples dedicated to her. So logically the Suramar people are also worshipers and perhaps not so different than their Kal’dorei cousins.
It’s heavily implied that Elune worship is still present though not as strong since the birth of the Night Well. We should also note that there are Zandalari trolls who worship Elune as a loa of balance and are choose to live outside Zuldazar to better commune with her.
We also see in archaeology that Highborne robes from very early in Night Elf culture have loa markings and have a blend of Night Elf/troll origins. So considering how central this loa err I mean goddess is to Kal’dorei/Suramar history and the central church of Elune was once in Suramar. I can’t imagine the practice being completely abandoned by isolation if anything it would be through isolation that the practice of Highborne worship of Elune would be preserved and could be distinct to their rural cousins.
Sorry pal, i only read this from your wall of text, because after reading that i knew that keep reading your arguments will be useless:
You asked me if i was talking about lore or game perspective. Seriously, i can’t chat with someone that can’t recognise the difference among both things. So, or you were trolling, or you were just showing again that you don’t know what are we talking about.
Nice one, know you try to push a ad hominem fallacy. I thought you were just someone who doesn’t know about lore, now i know you are a person that also doesn’t know the basics logic and manners for a debate.
That’s enough for me. I have better things to do. Cya.
You were saying that some races are better than others at certain classes, which is never explicitly stated in the lore. Various people and myself have pointed out that it is an opinion, not a fact supported by lore. However, from a gameplay perspective, there are some races that are better in certain classes because of their racials, so that was why I was thrown off.
So I was thinking either you were using that as support for “it is canon” (which wouldn’t work because of game mechanics) or it’s just yet another opinion (which -surprise!- isn’t fact).
You really could have clarified instead of attempting to discredit me with a troll accusation (I am noticing a pattern where “troll” is the favorite buzzword of this forum and it’s essentially become meaningless here because it often is “I don’t like this person so they must be a troll”), and then deciding all my points are invalid purely because of that. Have you even seen the discussion we were having on said points? Seems consensus is on my side here that who is “best” is a matter of opinion, not fact.
That’s rich coming from someone who just instantly calls me a troll over one question and then continues to call me one despite numerous attempts to clarify and resume discussion. And then not even bothering to address the actual arguments in favor of insisting I’m a troll.
Nice cherrypicking there too because here’s the entire context:
I fail to see how tht’s trolling because that implies I’m trying to get a rise out of you or am pranking you, neither of which is what’s happening here. Or I guess if you seriously got mad over that, I don’t know how you are going to make it in the world.
I wasn’t even attacking you because the key word there is “IF”. I wasn’t deliberately trying to provoke you, and there is literally nothing inflammatory about my question. If you weren’t legitimately mad about my statement, then it doesn’t apply to you. But if you were, I’m sorry but I’m judging you because that’s how normal people ask questions for clarification. I was confused where you were coming from so I asked.
It’s awfully arrogant and condescending of you to decide someone isn’t worth talking to just because they don’t know where you were getting your ideas from. Frankly, there’s literally nothing that supports your claim. It’s just your opinion. Which is fine, but don’t keep claiming it’s fact and blow off arguments to the contrary as “headcanon”.
I don’t even know why I bothered engaging with you because you’ve contributed the least to this little subdiscussion on druids (and the main topic discussion period), but I’m not even going to bother with you anymore because you clearly don’t want to acknowledge any points that go against your opinion. Good day to you.
Suramar kal’dorei definitely were Elune worshippers (it is where Tyrande and the Stormrage twins came from after all) but I don’t think we see any temples within the city (which was cut off from the world for about 10,000 years). The Tomb of Sargeras also got sunk underwater along with a good chunk of Suramar, so I doubt there’s anyone to visit it. Not that it’d be safe to anyways with all that fel energy there.
Which things imply that? I can’t say I’ve been to literally every corner of the city so maybe I missed something. But I don’t recall seeing anything related to Elune within Suramar City.
Also, it should be worth noting that it’s not explicitly stated that the Luna’lai’s matron is Elune though the implications are there. I’m definitely in that camp that believes it’s her as you can see from my previous posts, but I’m cautious about stating it as fact.
I hope Blizz gives us more info on them.
Hmm, that is interesting. It’s hard to tell though if they were actually worshipping Elune during that transitional phase unless we manage to get confirmation on the Luna’lai’s matron being Elune. And even then, the Shaldo’rei were cut off from the moon for 10,000 years so it’s not unlikely for them to lose their connection.
Ther problem with this is that the Nightborne were mostly Highborne survivors. The same Highborne that chose arcane over Elune, even though Suramar was the site of the central church. Another problem is that the entire sisterhood left the city so the were zero representatives of the faith left. So those factors plus the fact that the shield cut them off from the moon is probably why they abandoned the faith that they weren’t really using anyway.
I could also mention them intentionally leaving out the temple to sink however it is fair to begin that they had to deal with demons in there and had to seal it using the artifacts. But with the legions defeat I guess they could have included it but they chose not to.
Ever heard of Chekov’s gun? It means that every aspect of a story whether implied, part of the scene or noted description of a location/person is part of the cohesive narrative and fiction unlike real life is built on the idea there are no mere coincidences. Especially for a narrative perspective.
Venture the zone and look at the greater area of Suramar. The graveyard, the Moonguard Stronghold etc. The city itself was home to the sisterhood and we can’t assume all those priests trapped under the bubble abandoned their faith considering how so much of Elune is written into the zone.
[Moon Guard Stronghold]
(wow.gamepedia. com/Moon_Guard_Stronghold)
[wow.gamepedia. com/Ley_Station_Moonfall][Temple of Elune](wow.gamepedia. com/Tomb_of_Sargeras)[Gate of Elune’eth](wow.gamepedia. com/Ruins_of_Elune%27eth)
(wow.gamepedia. com/Ley_Station_Moonfall)
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