We've now had some time to digest the new key leaver penalty

Community General Discussion
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And after hearing everyones opinions and thinking about it, I am favouring more now the “We will wear the leaver badge with pride” crowd.

As much as I don’t really leave keys, I’ve left one in the past month, I still think the side of the leaver is a valid one. Yes it shows we will leave keys, but it also shows we will not put up with crap, we will not tolerate abuse, we will not carry crap tier players who don’t deserve it, we will put our foot down and stand our ground and ensure the players we play with are pulling their weight and proactively engaging in good game play.

Think I’m crazy fine, but thinking back on all the keys I can remember leaving and the ones I can remember someone else leaving and all but 1 was for the same 2 reasons, either someone was being abusive, or a player was crap tier. Crap tier either that they were just terrible for the stats they had, or crap in that you didn’t notice the tank being 680 iLVL was carrying a friend who was 630 iLVL in an M12 pulling healer level DPS.

That last part is partly on us for not checking, but also who can blame us for not checking, who actually expects to see someone vastly under geared, almost certainly paying for a carry and you getting suckered into the key.

Only once ever have I had someone leave a key for family reasons, I’ve had a few bail and come back apologising for their game crashing, a few guildies have left due to a power outage, but came back.

I’ve never had, or should I say can’t recall a key where someone left for lols, and thinking about how many keys I do, when the 5 members of the group all have the same expectations and perform close to the expectations, players don’t abuse each other and players don’t leave.

I’ve never once had a group where someone was like “This route is wrong” and left or some childish reason that some people here say and after hearing from players on this issue I can say I think the following is true.

Stop joining content you are not ready for and people will stop leaving keys. Players are causing issues that are forcing others to leave keys, players are then complaining about others leaving keys and the need to be penalised. If people stopped causing issues that are forcing people to leave, we would not need the penalty system to begin with.

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I can’t say that I’ve ever seen someone leave and thought “There was zero reason for them to do that.”

There are always numerous good reasons for them to leave and they could have picked any one or multiple of them as their motivation for ditching the key.

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If the only “penalty” for leaving a key is a debuff that says the person is a leaver, it won’t stop anything.

If the key is screwed, the key is screwed. I’m still leaving. It won’t stop anyone. I’d rather wear the debuff than waste more of my time in a losing group.

Hardly a penalty if you ask me.

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If you think about it, it’s not even a penalty, it really is a mark that says “I won’t put up with your crap”. And I think we will find players trying to make a group of non leavers so they can get carried, as many have said, by holding them hostage, and that’s wrong.

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It happened a few times, someone posted about it on the forums, and now the community just keeps retelling the story like there’s a bunch of key-leaving boogeymen out there that get a kick out of wasting their own time.

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The deserter debuff in LFG that literally prevents me from queueing again is a way better deterrent. I would actually rather just finish the run than sit around for 30 minutes waiting for it to drop.

A scarlet letter ain’t nothin’

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I mean if people are gonna make posts like this, Blizz is just gonna say “Ok you have gotten more than 3 Penalties this week for leaving, 2 week ban here you go”

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It also says “I won’t put up with anything and will leave if I feel its going sour in the slightest”. - aka people won’t pick you if you have the mark because they don’t want their key bricked over an obvious red flag.

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also extremely ballsy to Pug into someone’s key with this attitude as well imo.

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Nah man, not a single person I actively play with, and a good portion here (truthfully or not) have admitted they won’t leave unless there is a valid reason, you are just trying to justify the odd leaver here or there who has left because “The tank pulled a single additional mob”, which I can never recall coming across since Legion, and that’s some 8 years of keys.

Or maybe it’s because you see a lot of people who bail at the slightest whiff of a problem, and if you do, then why do you see it and most of us don’t?

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More or less than listing a key when you know you are going to do tank dps, die, don’t have an interrupt on your bar, and people are going to want to leave?

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thats why looking at someone’s score before you sign up is a huge help most of the time.

“Gee, this guy is listed for a +8 with 320 rating, VS the guy listing +8 with 1600-2.5k I wonder which will be a better experience”

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It does happen in a lot of low keys, like the 4-8 range. It’s rife with players who think they’re better than everyone else and will leave upon 1 wipe despite the key still being timeable, even with them missing. In fact, this key range is the only place I ever see unjustified leavers. It’s always the newbie M+ players who buy into the stigma of 1 wipe = failed key.

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Tbh it sounds like you are trying to justify bricking someones key.

This whole “I’m a leaver and proud of it!” attitude is super weird. Like I get it if you have an emergency or the group is basically a full carry. But its just weird to go around acting like you are proud to ditch enough keys to get marked.
Its not an instant thing. You have to do it multiple times. And within a time frame as well if I read the patch notes correctly.

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In a game where people can have 3k rating and still not know how to handle the darkness mechanic it kind of falls short of full-proof.

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That’s a given and should go without saying. But thanks for stating the obvious.

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This so called leavers mark is making me want to do M+ just to get the little mark next to my name I hope it appears in chat channels :dracthyr_yay_animated:

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Okay now THAT is something worth leaving for.

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When I see someone with the mark, I’m going to ask them for story time.

I did a 12 Rookery the other day with a hunter who didn’t know he was supposed to break the crystals on the last boss

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I had a DFC one day where we pugged someone who had an M17 timed in that dungeon, plus 6/8 mythic raid, yet failed half the boss mechanics in the dungeon.

They were an unholy DK, very high chance they were only doing keys that high because of the spec they were playing. Sure they could hit hard, but standing inside the candle on the last boss when you get the purple circle and almost killing your group, yeh there is no reason for someone with those stats to play like that, yet they did.

I had an M10 rookery, we wiped on the second boss and the mage asked “What does the debuff do?”.

Honestly it’s partly Blizzards fault for what comes next, if we stop pugging, if M+ dies, it’s partly their fault for allowing players to make it to a statistical level that won’t tell us if someone is actually as good as their stats say.

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