We're not making enough noise about layering

Absolutely. I do my best to offer the same respect I’m given. I hope for a good discussion between us.

I wasn’t saying they were. My intent of that point was to outline that I understood what you meant by people wanting the bad(Those bads being things like the designed imbalance of classes, the lack of QoL(that’s community breaking anyway), etc). That kinda stuff. I know no one wants to have crashing. However…

This is where the issues comes to be. These layers are supposed to take in a general servers’ population (Likely slightly less so as not to overload any one given layer). Meaning if there’s cause for layering, there will be nearly as many players still stuck in said world playing together. And the only way to leave is to be engaging with other players (Or resetting, in which case whoever was left on that layer won’t be of any concern. You probably don’t want to play with a layer hopper, and they very clearly did not want to play with anyone on that layer).

It was intended as a museum and to give an Vanilla-like experience. Not the direct quote, I’m sure. But they made it very clear that Classic =/= Vanilla. Similar, but not the same. And this is an important distinction:

These are not mutually exclusive things. One can exist with the other, and the intent is for both. Smooth launch (Yes, understanding that there will still be queues due to layer limits), as well as population mitigation down the road.

The layers/system itself will not redistribute people onto new layers for them. They will either log into a layer, or that layer becomes no longer necessary and they merge with the non-layered world. The only exception IS when a layer is going empty, in which case it pours back into the main layer. Not a great situation, but it’s far from the worst outcome. There will be non-zero chances of missing out on nodes(negligible) or a rarespawn(Very frustration, I’ll fully admit), but the benefits(That I’ll try to remember to go over at the end if needed) outweight the low chances of that.

As Blizzard has done in the past, they are most likely to open new servers. Offer free transfers to them from the others. Or offer transfers to the low pop servers that already exist post P1.

To survive, absolutely not. Layering isn’t needed for Classic to get off the ground. But it is, from what I can tell, the most efficient way to ensure the launch and early crowd shuffling is as smooth as possible. There are definitely other methods, but at this point in the chain, it’s too late to scrap layering and implement something from scratch. The discussion at this point should be tweaks to layering - anything possible that can mitigate layering’s negative effects.

Do note the differences in time and competition. In the years back yonder when I was but a wee … teen? Something like that. We didn’t have the tech, and thus it was expected that launches would suck. Launches continued to suck for many years after that. Legion and BFA launches were clean, but that has nothing to do with most players disliking them due to the content.
People miss the classic feel to games(Pun intended). If Blizz came out and said “The launch will be hell because we’re releasing it in as close of a condition to original as possible” the forums would either be rife with hate, or more players would jump on the “I won’t play until it’s stable” train, since they have other things they can do to fill the time. Speculation, but a pretty easy one considering the general entitled atmosphere of ‘gaming’ and ‘gamers’ nowadays.

I think the community damage of layering is incredibly overestimated. You’re talking thousands of people. And in the best of times, you’ll be in zones of 100+ people. I don’t know any sane person that can juggle all those people, make friends, track baddies, etc. Let alone if you tried to do it with people shoving past you cause they spent 2 hours in queue, crashed, had to spend another 3, and just caught up to your quest after rushing content. There will be no lack of community if you take the time to get to know the folks you’re helping. And if you don’t have the urge to do so in the moment, then it really didn’t matter, right?

I could be wrong, as I’m quoting third party at this point: Blizzard has never merged servers. They’ve connected some, where you still have your native server, but it perma CRZs with another. But that is not a suitable solution.

^Above to the community bit a lil ways up. Not trying to disregard, but better than I don’t messy my way through another para of it.

Tourists leaving is not a game failing. In this day in age, Classic is… a fine cheese. It’s made for some specific folks out there, but far from the masses. However, with the hype of the interweb, it’ll spread like wildfire. “Oh my gosh! This game was so good! You have to play it with me!” And so on and so on, but some of those players might just… hate it. It’s harder. Doesn’t hold your hand. Requires a lot of time commitment. It’s a game that will surge and (likely) fall. I’m no psychic, so I can’t say for sure. But I’d rather be prepared than not.

I may have missed a link to the alternative suggested, but I still don’t see a better way. Opening too many servers ends with dead servers (Either by players leaving, or others transferring to bigger servers.) Layering really isn’t that big of an issue (And I know that video is going around. Some exploits that need to be dealt with, of course, but that’s any game ever). Remember, they are beta testing. This isn’t early access. There are bugs. Issues. Things to tidy up. And as many have noted, there haven’t been any big patches to the client. They’re consolidating, is my best guess, to put the big changes in all together after private testing. Seeing players zip in and out of existence, as I have surely mentioned prior, were in the stress tests, where they were actively changing layering caps. The others in open world/non stress tests were likely players joining groups.

Okay, my stuff for a minute here. Layering is NOT as bad as people are making it out to be. It’s an exploitable system for minor gain(Remember that they still have to fight the other existing, populated layers to get tags on mobs/nodes/etc so it’s not like someone’s free to mosey around and collect everything) sure. There is a hint of missing community, but let’s be honest, no one can really tell the difference between 100 people in your quest zone/city and 300. (Obvious exceptions for mass events, but that’s not a big part of the gameplay experience). So with layering, you have better chances at healthy server sizes, a system that mitigates early queue times and crashes allowing more players to play in general, and the promise that it will be removed - to which, if it’s not, then Blizz will have a lot of angry players with flaming pitch forks).

Keep in mind, and this is important, the people supporting layering STILL DON’T LIKE IT. Most of us just understand it as a fair trade. Kinda sucky probably, but the alternatives generally suck more.

Improving on layering, however, would be greatly welcomed. There have been some neat ones, sure. And some that don’t work with the tech yet. But it’s a start. I think the most healthy thing for community and “purist”(Feels dirty having to label that term, but bleh) alike is to shift the discussion to bettering layering. Be it:
*Limitations on node interaction after shifting layers (Intentionally if possible?)
*Finding a way to actually limit it based on zones
*Disable the ability to move layers while in combat/recently been in combat(for the Wpvpers)
*Having layers based on levels(Likely disabled on RP realms or maybe this idea just sucks, but I’m trying here)

Things like those (I hope the formatting worked? Might have to edit to do it). Small changes that fix a lot of issues. But still allow for the mitigating properties of layering to avoid dead servers, CRZing servers, and queues/crashes.

For the most part, we’re stuck with layering. Yelling at Blizzard about it this late either won’t do anything or will force a more scuffed system since they don’t really have the time to put in a completely new system. It’s better to shift into trying to improve layering for the limited time we have it, and go from there. That’s my opinion, at least.

The possible Layer Hopping, ‘community issues’, and buggy nature of layering in the beta tests aren’t really enough to push me to wanting it outright removed. They can either be resolved, or are much smaller issues than they seem to be. Much better than having the first few months exist of multi-hour queues and frequent crashes.

The choice right now appears to be “Play a slightly less authentic version” or “Willingly accept a sloppy launch, queues, and crashes until enough people quit in frustration to stabilize”

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Yes exactly. Layering isn’t some minor nuisance that we can just brush off until Classic actually comes and see how it is. It’s something that’s clearly bad and we need to be loud enough so Blizzard actually does something about it unlike BFA where not enough people spoke up during beta and we got stuck with awful class design and awful game design.


I counted 7 threads about layering in the first 30 or so on the front page.

I’m pretty sure you people are making more than enough noise.

Layer the 1-15 zones only!

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Force all level 30+ players into the same layer.

Many good options!

You were not seeing the finished product of layering. Seriously, do any of you grasp that this is beta and there’s bugs and they’re working on fixing things?


The layering issues are not limited to the stress test.



Dude, give them time to get it working right. Are you seriously not grasping the point of a beta test?

I grasp it. I also grasp that there are easier solutions than trying to code-prevent mob/player phasing, and node exploits.

Sharding already works as-is, sonjust shard the starting zones and be done with it. 2 months will come very fast!

The point of the Beta is for us to give feedback. We’re giving feedback. Layering shouldn’t make it too Live the same way current retail class design shouldn’t of made it out of BFA Beta.


No, the point is finding and correcting bugs. It’s not about our opinion, it’s about making sure things are working as intended.

Considering the #nochanges, it’s definitely more for bug reporting and such. There’s no feedback to add when they’re not changing the gameplay. The testers are there to find the bugs, and test out the new layering tech. Which is still in active development.

Sadly, too many people are treating it like early access.

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This is exactly what we need, more complaining. :wink:

Yes. Exactly. Most of the game isn’t really being tested for content, just bugs, and even then most of those were already ironed out by patch 1.12 anyways. Literally the main system they’re testing in the beta is layering. We’re here saying it needs to go.


Get out of here with your logic and understanding. Don’t you know layering is antithetical to classic now off with you.

Seriously though, it’s coming. People should shift the convo to trying to better it rather than eliminate it. Also realize that even those who are accepting layering don’t like it we just understand its purpose and are “ok” with the trade off.

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The problem is we don’t know if the layering system we are seeing is working as intended.

I’m just wondering if anyone of you guys even played in the stress test at this rate. Without layering, you couldn’t do anything if you just wanted to quest. Even in a full party, it was, mind numbing. Heck, most people didn’t even play because of how many people were competing for mobs, or wait a while to try again later.

Blizzard has two options that they can do,they can make raid groups work with quests, or have hard login queues for players when it comes to making a character till players leave the 1-5 area for more players to come in.

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I got into WoW about 13-14 years ago when my dad played. He played at least 9-10 years and was an active multi-boxer. He didn’t even know Classic was coming back because he quit so long ago. I agree with you.

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Stress test is an extreme you wouldn’t see in normal servers. Ideally they would make the cap like 6-9k on launch and then if people quit in 2 weeks like people are saying it would go to a normal 3k cap. Private servers launch with bigger numbers than this and mob competition dies down within a few days. There’s no need to split those numbers into layers it just causes a ton more problems.

Private servers also have 2-3x the mobs in the zones on top of increased mob spawn rates that blizzard doesn’t… Maybe that’s part of why it dies down.