We're back baby!

looks like a new set of patch notes just dropped with crusader strike back in the mix for holy paladins. praise the light we are indeed melee healers again!

I know this isn’t everyone’s ideal gameplay, and I sincerely hope caster Paladin is still viable for my brothers and sisters that prefer to stay at range, but for me (and hopefully many others who are melee Paladin enjoyers) this hits just right.

now just give us a choice node for denounce and shine of the righteous, maybe juice holy power spenders a bit more, and we’re really golden :smiley:

3 Likes

I missed swinging my sword. I didn’t have any buttons to press anymore

3 Likes

I’ve been on the beta. It’s actually quite bad.

CS does no damage in the slightest and does no healing.

However it’s required now since unless you take CM, the cooldown on Holy Shock and Judgement are upwards of 8-9 seconds.

This actually dramatically slows down the spec, greatly reducing our healing output just to bring back a non-healing, extremely low damage HP generator.

22 Likes

Well that’s no good … I actually I mean besides missing seeing the animation, it felt pretty good having more holy shocks.

hopefully they fix it one way or another

It’s only bad because in typical blizzard fashion they overnerfed everything to compensate for adding one ability back. They just need to lower the Cd of Shock again and lower the cooldown of judgement by a lot.

2 Likes

I hated that they removed Crusader Strike, but now i hate that they are adding it back, at least adding it back as a worse version.

Why can’t Holy have it’s own exclusive DPS abilities? Why must we have Crusader Strike and SotR?

I was hoping they would change SotR to something mid-range/range that doesn’t require a shield, then we wouldn’t have to be pure melee and we could have some flexibility in movement, re-adding Crusader Strike feels like a massive step back.

I understand the fantasy of being in melee but it can be so restrictive, mid-range feels like a better compromise.

My wishes: change SotR to be a mid range AoE DPS spender, add a new ability called ‘Holy Strike’ that is a spamable single target DPS ability - it has a short cast time but can be cast while moving - midrange - can be empowered with Infusion of Light (so we have a DPS ability to dump unwanted Infusion procs and no one needs healing and Judgment is on cooldown).

6 Likes

I hate the new change as well. The rotation was already clean with short cd judgement and holy shock. If people want spammable melee damage and to avoid awkward melee wings binds, just keep everything as it was before and add in crusader strike. They took a clean rotation and made it worse.

10 Likes

Trash new beta changes for holy paladins. I was liking how it was now. I love the caster play style. Now I’m back to being in melee to lower the cd of my judgement and holy shock…. Ohhhh boy I am not touching this class

10 Likes

Every single Holy Paladin ever: “Replace SotR with something fun and useable with a two-handed weapon.”

Blizzard: “LOL here is Crusader Strike and all your abilities nerfed.”

15 Likes

We definitely need shield on a choice node with something more flexible for those that need it!

You’re now a caster healer that’s forced to use a random melee attack for cooldown reduction.

Congrats I guess.

14 Likes

The problem is, with SotR that has always been true, we were hoping they would change SotR to mid-range/range but instead they went backwards and re-added Crusader Strike.

It is also worth noting that things currently on Live are not perfect and changes were needed, but re-adding Crusader Strike and nerfing our other abilities is not the answer.

On Live the Crusader’s Might talent is basically mandatory if you want to retain your sanity, even then there can be moments where all your abilities are on cooldown. Holy Paladins are the only healer that doesn’t have a spamable DPS ability, and our DPS spender is tied to our healer resource.

They should revert what they did, and then give us templars verdict to use for a 2h spender. Easy peasy!

Honestly my perspective is that I’m going to win either way, I’m happy to have crusader strike back and what that adds to the rotation, but if blizzard believes they made a mistake and revert it, I also love the version of hpal they had prior to the reintroduction of crusader strike.

I’m very curious what direction they’re going to take with this.

Holy Pally was entirely distance neutral which should be the case, one would think, for how Beacon work to adjust to your beacon.

But nope, players wanted distance-neutral pure instant pally gone in favor of the old awkward pally that has to throw in casts as global fillers while in melee range

Congratulations, got what you want. Broken unfixed spec in 5 weeks on launch GG.

8 Likes

CS is an useless button that does nothing. go press SToR if you wanna melee. We are a glorified spot healer and pressing CS takes away from healing. Garbage

12 Likes

This is dumb. Seriously. I don’t want crusader strike. It’s the lowest of the lowest fillers. Why would you want another useless key to press. And we lost 87% speed to our judgement. This isn’t cool at all

8 Likes

I have never seen a streamer ruin a spec like Ellesmere has for Hpal.

Let me get straight:
CS gets removed and Judge/HS CD’s get lowered such that button press frequency and builder/spender economy are effectively unchanged. The crude summary is that Hpals press Judge twice as often instead of pressing CS and Judge half as often.

This change goes a long way to making Hpal more enjoyable because its moment to moment gameplay is more fluid and the melee limitation on the spec is effectively gone.

A significant portion of the spec talent tree and power becomes Judgment talents but it works because we are now pressing it so often. The overall flow of the spec is also improved because playing around procs on Judge is far better when the CD is 4-5 seconds rather than 9-10 seconds. Not getting a proc doesn’t feel too bad because we can try again quickly and averages even out over shorter periods of time.

Then Ellesmere complains that Hpal lost its depth and that he’s falling asleep in keys. I don’t see how, as Hpal didn’t lose much at all. It still builds and spends Holy Power at similar rates. It still chooses between Faith and Virtue. It still utilizies procs as it gets them and it still heals predominately with Beacons, HS, Judge, WoG/LoD and some casted heals where appropriate. Hpals cooldowns are practically unchanged.

The major difference in gameplay is Hpals now press Judge where they would have pressed CS. If losing that pseudo choice made the spec boring then I guess Hpal is boring.

Then Blizzard decide to bring CS back at the 11th hour. To do this, HS and Judge go back to their longer CD’s to make space for CS as a builder. So now Hpals regain their clunky melee requirement, building Holy Power gains a tedious, trivial and meaningless choice between two buttons that do the same thing with different animations except that half the Hpal talent tree isn’t built around CS and CS also does no damage or healing.

So now Hpals are going into Midnight with knee-jerk and ill thought out changes that only look at giving Hpal another meaningless button to press but with zero thought about how to balance talents, procs and interactions for that button. All because the Hpal streamer didn’t like losing CS.

Maybe Ellesmere had nothing to do with it. Maybe Blizz had planned this out regardless of the very vocal feedback from the prominent minority. But these patch notes might as well read:

  • Veneration half as good
  • Empyrean Legacy half as good
  • Crusaders Might nuked
  • Divine Glimpse half as good
  • Truth Prevails half as good
  • Judgment damage halved
  • Hammer and Anvil half as good
  • Awakening half as good
  • Reflection of Radiance half as good
  • Divine Revelations mana return half as good (CS costs more mana btw)

All that and more to get CS back. It better be a damn good button to justify that or Hpal just went from good to absolutely awful. Spoilers: It’s not a good button (and Hpal is dumpster tier on beta already).

RIP Hpal. Likely worse than Pres now in beta and by far the most clunky/unfun healer until it gets yet another rework that may or may not work.

8 Likes

ive got bad news for you, you will be doing far more casting than you have ever done before. CS is extremely bad filler spell, unbuffed FoL unironically is better.

2 Likes

Ellesmere wanted a mana throttle, he did not want this lol