Assuming there is enough minority players to support more majority players logging in.
In this example, them logging out would not open more spaces, because they are hard capped at 325 Horde. If no additional Horde log in because there aren’t enough on the server, it not only would remain unbalanced at 325:500 if the Ally weren’t booted out, but the Alliance in queue would not advance in their position.
I don’t see it happening. There would be a good chunk of people who wouldn’t get to play and in turn may get pissed enough to leave
I don’t see them pissing off a majority of the players on a server to balance for the minority.
The math just doesn’t work.
First of all, I didn’t propose a hard cap. I think there should be some leeway, perfect balance would be annoying because you would have the queue be popping into and out of existence.
Secondly, once again, if there were x number of players online at any given moment, some of them will be logging off (on the side that’s capped). You will move up through the queue as those people log off, and eventually get in, even if the queue from the very beginning still has the same number of people in it.
First off, you need to have a minimum cap. If there’s under 2,000 people logged into the server for example. Just let everyone in as you’re not even at the real vanilla server population cap yet. And it’s probably off hours. And they’re probably spread out across every zone and level at that point and just farming mats or dungeons. You won’t have 25+ horde/alliance camping every flight path and graveyard on the server when there’s that few online.
Once you hit say 3,000 logged in you start enforcing a balancing queue.
Want to get in for raid time? Start logging in 1 hour early if you’re on the highly over represented faction. Or roll on a server where you won’t have to queue up. If you want to cry about missing your PVE raid on a PVP server, maybe you should have rolled on a PVE server or on the underdog faction.
Having 8,000 people on a server with only 2,000 being alliance, which is probably about accurate right now, Is not going to make for a healthy server. And you’re only going to turn that pvp server into a pve server. You won’t be hitting rank 14 anytime soon when there’s no alliance to kill, because they won’t even log in, because they can’t even use the auction house or bank without having 15 rogues gank them.
So we’ll assume we are at the soft cap of whatever arbitrary number is chosen as “balance.” Which is likely due to the main “problem” being far too many of one faction.
Ergo, the 500 Ally remain online, but if there is 325 Horde online we are at 33:66, is that acceptable? Are more Ally barred from entry?
So you’re proposing a static faction split, such as 60:40. At any given time, only 60 Alliance can log in regardless of the number of Horde being 40 or not?
How would that ensure balance any more than what we have now?
If there is a viable solution to this situation, I’ve yet to see it. Every one offered by people would create as many problems as exist now, just different ones. Examples:
Separate faction queue times - would not work. Logging on is done as a person, not a character and there is no way to know what level of character anyone is going to play. You cannot assume everyone logging into the game is immediately choosing a level 60. So it won’t address the level 60 balance because not every character playing at any one time is level 60.
Free server transfers - have obviously not been very successful. And the ultimate issue here is that it is not guaranteed to be a permanent fix. Servers are not static. You may go somewhere that seems fine when you arrive and within X amount of time its also out of whack. How many times do you have to transfer when the end result may well be the same and you are back to square one?
I am obviously repeating myself but I still believe that if there was a viable solution, Blizzard would have done it by now. Hell, they may be investigating options, we just don’t know.
I said a minimum cap of maybe 2,000 players before queues implement. Due to not wanting to punish people in off hours, and it wouldn’t matter in off hours. When it’s 4am and every zone is basically empty, just let everyone in. If there’s 500 alies and 325 horde online, you figure half of them are sitting in cities, a bunch are running dungeons, others are botting running AH bots or vendor item buying scripts. Then the open world only has a few of people when you’re at those low numbers. You’re not going to be incapable of questing when there’s 500 or less total players online in each faction.
Not sure where you’re getting this constant static 60:40 split from.
With faction queues you need to bar the larger faction from entering until the smaller faction catches up in numbers obviously.
In this case, is the balancing queue weighted for current online activity? Or static at some “balance” ratio? If no additional minority faction players sign on because there isn’t enough of them to compensate for the majority, then will the majority players wait in the queue indefinitely hoping more minority players log in?
For instance, we have 2000 Horde and 8000 Alliance. There is no cap to 2000 players, so the average 20:80 ratio holds and we have 400 Horde and 1600 Alliance. Now we hit 2000 players, so Ally can no longer log in. However, with so few Horde many more may simply not log in. If 50% of all the players are on, there are 1000 available Horde, 1000 Alliance are able to enter because we aren’t at the 2k total, but now no additional (or a very small %) of Horde log in, so 3000 Alliance will have a queue?
This time frame would be highly variable however, since it becomes throttled at the 2k threshold. This would reinforce queue skipping, and those organically trying to log in now have an actual unplayable game.
This is somewhat rich. The entire arguement for these queues are people “crying” they can’t PvE on their PvP servers and don’t like dealing with PvP that isn’t on their terms.
Nope, it wouldn’t. However, making artificial queues relative to weighting criteria wouldn’t either. I’d support a standardized cap that brings server inline with the capacity the game was designed for though.
This sounds like a majority faction problem, which many people think they can overcome with BGs. I still log in nightly, and fight off the Alliance camping the auctioneers so I can actually use the AH. Then again, I joined a PvP server to PvP.
From the previous people suggesting faction queues.
If it is dynamic, how do you compensate for there simply not being enough of one faction to allow the other in?
If it is a raid night, and every single HS Horde guild is online raiding at the same time, there still wouldn’t be enough Horde for nearly 50% of the Ally to log in. Thus they will not be able to have a raid schedule, it would be subject to Horde raid times and being able to get every Alliance member online, which reinforces queue skipping.
With a dynamic balance queue, the timeframe will not be predictable and the majority faction may never be able to log in due to too few minority faction players. This could also reinforce queue skipping. Maybe at 2AM and 8:40AM the server would be below the softcap and they could log on, but this isn’t practical for a large portion of the playerbase and doesn’t facilitate their ability to raid or engage in scheduled content.
The main issue is that Blizzard didn’t see any of this coming. Also many Vanilla players also didn’t see this coming. And people who called it out early on never got support until long after it happened.
I agree bro. I don’t see any issue with faction specific queues. It is just leveling the playing field. I don’t find any arguments against faction specific queues particularly convincing in the least. But I’m keeping an open mind.
First off, you’d never have an 8,000 to 2,000 ratio if you start implementing faction based queues. Once you hit the 2,000 mark (maybe 3,000, have to look at when the ganking/GY/flight point camping in every zone starts) you’d probably be around 3 or 4pm server time based upon the location of the servers. So yeah you’d have 2,000 alliance/horde logged in, and 2,000 of the other faction logged in. You obviously don’t kick people already logged in, and The rest would wait in a queue for a turn. Believe it or not, most people have jobs. And when 1st, 2nd, 3rd shift people have to go to work, they generally log off and you have queue turnover.
Wow “unplayable game” really? I’m still sitting on 800 dark iron dust and I’ve been trying to turn them in to get to honored with thorium brotherhood for the last 3 days now. In 3 days I’ve managed to turn in 200 dust because the second I rez I have 5 to 25 people trying to gank me. How “playable” do you think my faction is? How long do you think it’ll be till my server is a PvE server because everyone on the minority faction quits? If we make a raid of 20 people with healers to fight back, there’ll be a 40 to 80 horde at that FP within 2 minutes to kill us all and camp our bodies for hours. You can’t rez because there’s 5 rogues camping every GY in every zone over lv40.
This game is already unplayable for the minority faction on dozens of servers. At which point they will all quit. At which point it’s not a pvp server anymore. At which point the dominant faction will quit.
You either balance the faction numbers logged in, or the servers will probably be dead in 1 month for the minority faction. Then 1 month after that the dominant faction will quit as they have nobody to pvp.
Would you play a counterstrike mod where you had to choose between a side with 25% more hp/damage and the side with 25% less hp/damage. And the side with more hp/damage got to outnumber the weaker side 5 to 1 in every match, so you were already going up against 5v1 numbers before getting gimped on “racials”, do you think that counterstrike mod would last? Or die a quick and horrible death due to imbalance?
Having a server cap without balancing the factions will only result in a pvp server death spiral at this point. The 60:40 servers are already 80:20 or 90:10 now due to people quitting or not logging in anymore.
Every horde in Classic says to re-roll retail if they don’t like being outnumbered 4-1 or worse. Why not take your own faction’s advice?
No, actually they’d switch servers. Or the alliance wouldn’t be outnumbered 5 or 25 to 1 on most servers, and they might start logging in again.
Wow subscriptions tripled back in August when classic came out. There’s millions playing this game. And at least 40 if not 45% of them rolled alliance. So you’re saying those millions of opinions and inability to play or do anything doesn’t matter, because you’re playing on a side which would be hit with queues? So everyone else (millions) should be punished and left with an unplayable game, as long as you’re allowed 25 to 1 gank fests against the minority faction?
Don’t like it, roll minority faction and you can hit max level in about 3 days played with addons like questie.
Why don’t you try playing the minority faction on a pvp server with an 80:20 or worse split. After you spend 3 hours getting from ironforge to dire maul corpse warping the entire way because you literally can’t rez without someone (3 to 25 people) ganking you in less than 10 seconds you’ll understand.
The order of magnitude difference in server populations is already a massive change.
If the rest are waiting in queue at this point, and the dynamic queue is in place, then this assumes there are enough of the minority faction to facilitate sign ins. Oh really, people work? Perhaps that drives things such as the peak hours phenomenon, when a large majority play. With a dynamic queue, a large portion of the majority faction will not be able to log in a peak because there isn’t enough minority faction to support it - even if every single minority faction member is online.
This turnover works well currently because it doesn’t consider faction, if it was throttled by faction then turnover is based upon a supposition that enough minority players are available, which isn’t the case currently.
We would need faction based transfers, also accounting total server populations, which would need extensive oversight by Blizzard.
Sounds like you’ve signed on just fine, and are playing. Just not the way you anticipated. Sitting in a queue is actually not playing. I play in the smallest minority of any PvP server. What you are describing is PvP, not “unplayable.” You want to meet specific PvE objectives, like getting to an instance to turn in rep items, and feel PvP is getting in your way. There are servers that will prevent that from happening.
It isn’t unplayable, if you’re being engaged in PvP, you are literally in game, playing. If you are sitting in a queue, it is literally not playing.
The rate of people quitting is undetermined; every PvP server is still at High population. Ergo people do not appear to be leaving en masse.
If people prefer leaving to PvE servers to avoid wPvP, this is a positive and they will likely enjoy their experience more.
It seems I would, I log in almost nightly to PvP in my capital’s AH. PvP in abundance, the way PvP servers were designed to support.
A server cap would reduce the total population density, facilitating people doing things in world with a lower likelihood of having to engage in wPvP.
Strange, all the Alliance on my server say that and much worse offensive things to the Horde. Simple insults, in addition to the rational advise of rerolling PvE for someone who doesn’t enjoy PvP.
Why would I play retail? I haven’t in years, have no interest, and love mass scale wPvP. It seems like you’d prefer a different iteration of the game if you’d like forced balance and population measures.
Or simply queue skip, or not do so either way - as we have already seen with transfers. The Ally on my server would have to transfer back to the source servers they came from, which recreates the initial issue transfers attempted to resolve.
The difference is this: they rolled a PvP server with expectations of what PvP is. It is not on your terms, it is pervasive and constant. The game isn’t “unplayable,” their server choice doesn’t align with their desired playstyle.
I play in the single smallest minority of any PvP server, my main is Heartseeker Horde. It’s PvP, get over it. If you don’t want to deal with ganking, there are other server types.
If I have to corpse walk 25 times and get MC walked to the GY from the entrance of BRM to be AoEed down by GY campers, it is part of PvP. Next time I’ll adapt better to avoid it.
I selected a PvP server to PvP, being in a super minority just ensures I have plenty of honor to farm - the exact reason you should play PvP.
Ironically, you quoted me saying I have to fight Ally in the Org AH just to talk to a auctioneer (if one happens to be alive) and you’re so tilted about Horde v Alliance that you didn’t recognize that I’m obviously on a minority faction from every example I provided.
The most important aspect that you are completely ignoring, is that those who are in game would be enjoying a balanced experience. THAT is the most important thing.
Also, I would assume that for every horde stack that faces these queues and are urged to transfer to an opposing stacked server, the OTHER server with the opposite stack situation would be offering transfers of their stacked realm to yours.
But hey, keep weeping for stacked faction members who would have the option to move and avoid the queues.
You can already do this, simply roll on the server type you’d prefer to play.
I encounter the “horrid,” “gamebreaking” minority gameplay daily and love it - it aligns with what I want to do on a PvP server, PvP.
This all assumes people will transfer, and many will sit through queues the same way they already have. Alternatively, many would have to migrate back to source servers they came from. I doubt you’d see an exodus of Alliance from HS going back to Stalagg/Skeram if there is no guaranteed balance, unless the queues will persist throughout the duration of the game.
If they want to transfer, they should. It benefits everyone. Tools shouldn’t be implemented to try and force this because PvP servers don’t align with player’s expectations of PvP. The more people in game, the better. If the play style doesn’t suit them, there are PvE servers.
If players can’t log on due to not enough minority to support them, then a new wave of “the game is unplayable, I can’t play with my friends, unsubbing” commences. Why? People are upset about PvP on PvP servers.
Don’t like waiting in a queue… Re-roll minority faction. This isn’t Everquest classic, it doesn’t take 6 months of hard core playing to hit max level. If there’s not relatively equal numbers on pvp servers they’re not pvp servers, they’re griefer servers which will turn into PvE servers. It’s great that you like to fight back when lv60 rogues try to camp your capital cities, but you’re obviously not a lv20 warrior because if you were you’d die in 1 shot every time and there would be no fighting back.
And Wow, so millions of people should be subjected to gameplay consisting of corpse warping to an instance for hours on end because of your personal opinion. Should we call you GOD now? Should Blizzard give up tens of millions of dollars in revenue every month because of your personal opinion? Because that’s exactly what will happen.
So if blizzard gave me the source code. And I made it so that 5 NPC rogues spawned and all backstabbed you 5 seconds after you rezzed every time you were online for the next month, so you were never capable of being alive in game more than 5 seconds, you’d consider that “playable?” If that’s what you think you’re either on some very good meds, or you’re definitely not getting the “minority faction experience” that many of us are and your claims of being minority faction on your server are all BS. I’m already seeing the change in zone counts on doing /who on various zones. The servers are rapidly dying. For 1 of the factions.
The game is still totally playable regardless. Just perhaps not on a server/faction of your choosing. Just because you want to log into horde on faerlina and wait for 4 hours instead of instantly logging into alliance on virtually any other server, or horde on a different server, doesn’t mean the game is unplayable. It means that you’re being stubborn and would rather wait 4 hours in a queue rather than picking the other 50 options which would allow you to log in immediately.
You either want a PvP experience which involves a relative balance of faction numbers online. Or you want a PvE experience which is anything else, as every unbalanced server will be a PvE server soon at this rate.
Sitting in ironforge AFK for hours on end is also literally not playing. Would you like me to take screenshots of this happening? Would you like me to do /who on various lv50+ zones around my server to show you that millions aren’t playing because they’re either not bothering to log in or aren’t leaving capital cities? You can make a lv1 character on every server and start doing /who on every zone with various limiters and quickly figure out what the faction balance is in every zone during prime time. Apparently millions of people finding the game unplayable because of your personal opinion is fine for you. Any more advice God?
Really? You’re pvping lv60 rogues as a lv20 warrior? Why don’t you tell us what your real server and faction is, then we can roll lv1s there and see if you’re telling the truth or just making up blatant lies?
Wow you mean like REAL VANILLA??? Why aren’t you screaming NO CHANGES!!! NO CHANGES!!! And demanding real vanilla server population caps equal to real vanilla which were a fraction of current caps? …… Unless you’re playing horde on a horde dominant server where you can 5 vs 1 all your opponents. And maybe that’s why you want NO CHANGES!!! From the current NON-VANILLA experience. Just implement real vanilla server population caps, I totally agree, 70% of the problems will be solved. Horde will leave my server in droves due to the 4 hour queue.
If you can’t even GY rez and hearth, I’d say 99% of players when subjected to that level of griefing, would consider that unplayable. Perhaps you’d like to share more of your infinite wisdom with us God? Seeing as how nobody else matters other than yourself, and you obviously aren’t playing on a server with anywhere near the problems most of us are. Or if you are, you’re a stealth class who can avoid 99% of players and pick your pvp battles so that you’re not horrendously outnumbered.
Even if you want to pretend the millions of people who played vanilla 15y ago are all liars. You can find thousands of hours of vanilla WoW gameplay from 15 years ago on the internet. It wasn’t this bad.
And I have an aching suspicion you’re either playing a stealth ganker class, or you’re blatantly lying about your server/faction.
This was one of the most beautiful compilation of logical facilities and emotional reasoning I’ve ever seen. It was cute.
Believe what you will, I play HS Horde with friends of all sorts of classes. My main is apparantly a “ganker” class, whatever that means. Especially with Spy its even less of a valid statement, and don’t you know best, the doors and every choke point has 15-20+ so stealthing past that isn’t possible. Especially since I’m getting through the choke point with 4-9 no stealthies. My friends play all sorts of classes, the ones that don’t have stealth keep potions and engi items to make ends meet. I usually roll around with multiple people who don’t stealth, so I typically am not stealthed upon engaging.
My new priest alt is going alright, but maybe this is a “ganker” class as well.
This boils down to the true issue at hand, reroll PvE if you don’t want to PvP.
Yeah, some guildies have quit because they dislike the current state of wPvP, some have rerolled PvP. These are the options we have currently.
What is comical is you can’t even fathom people enjoy this. Every type of class in my guild has different opinions, and many are of the frame of mind: more targets to sapper charge nuke.
But you know, we’re PvPer’s on a PvP server.
You’ve submit so fully you think anyone that doesn’t respond negatively to adversity must be lying and not playing a minority faction. It’s pretty sad tbh. I hope they make PvP > PvE server transfers if you’re this far down the rabbit hole and can’t adjust.
Glhf!
No holds barred? even PVP servers have restrictions on PVP… I rode to Ironforge today and just down the hill from the gates I found a lvl 60 ret pally that was un- attack-able… What crap…
Anyhow, BG’s will fix the problem… dont like them, dont do them… give the PVP-ers … (you know the people who rolled on a PVP server and who are ganking in death balls now) something to do besides gank in a death ball…
I dont find it fun and neither do the people I am killing apparently.
For real, the entire world should be hostile and same faction flagging should be available.
I’m a minority faction player, so no death ball here. But getting kills when massively overwhelmed is so satisfying. 1000’s of HKs thanks to the abundant targets rolling around in their death balls (lol, I love this description)
That’s okay, they are dead now and won’t mind much.