So… on the servers that exist right now, with the conditions you are naming, do the the same issues not exist?
There are no faction based queues currently in the game, so I am not sure what you’re talking about.
#1 worse suggestion to ‘fix’ the faction imbalance (which the majority of players on PvP servers don’t want fixed) is faction queues.
Punishing people as they want to play with friends and guildies is not the answer.
Servers with equal or close to equal faction balance and with lower populations than the mega servers.
Yeah, on servers with similar faction populations there is a healthier back and forth in world pvp. I’ve read several posts to that effect. There just aren’t many of them, thus not many people to post about it (and also because if you’re miserable it gives more incentive to post about it). And the situation is much worse on the more imbalanced servers. Maybe log off your Horde character for a few minutes and watch some Youtube videos on the topic, if you actually care to learn anything.
So, if someone want that, they know where to reroll.
As opposed to abandoning my Horde character, and rerolling Alliance on a server with relatively great faction imbalance, favoring Horde, and posting here on that reroll?
Or, as opposed to rolling several level 1 characters across several servers to corpse walk to several key PVP areas and cities, speak with people on the lower faction side, and get a personal sense of what is going on?
Or perhaps as opposed to spending hours reading through the code and pull requests of open source consensus addons to better understand if they are functioning properly and/or how they work, to get a better understanding of what sort of data we have and what we can derive from it?
I’d love some clarity on precisely what it is you are implying with that “care to learn anything” comment…
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Agreed, thus why artificial queues won’t be accepted by the community.
That said, there would be the option to transfer off the mega server. You don’t have to sit in the queue.
And why as long as there a mega-servers with population levels the game wasn’t designed to support there will be unintended consequences, like we’ve seen throughout the Classic experiment.
Calling them artificial queues is misleading. All queues are to some extent artificial, in that someone must decide at some point to put them in place. The servers could hold more people, but the game will become laggy. Both types of queues prevent an issue caused by overpopulation that makes the game unplayable. This is just like queues from having too many people in general. You just think they’re different, or want to argue that at least, because you are Horde. You want to keep your ez mode and don’t want to wait in a queue, so you aren’t going to argue in good faith. You’re just fighting to keep the injustice in your favor.
If a server supports 10k, and 3k Ally can’t log in because only 2k Horde are online, it is artificially creating a queue. Said queue wouldn’t exist in a standardized state across servers, like a blanket queue with a set population would, thereby it is artificially created at any arbitrary time based upon the log-in routines of the minority faction.
Further, it creates the issue I mentioned above concerning raids.
If every single Horde guild raided at the same time, on the same day (which we don’t) there still wouldn’t be enough Horde online for HS Alliance to log in. Thus, they don’t get to have raid schedules. When and how long their queue would be is arbitrary based upon Horde logging on.
While both queues are there to prevent “problems,” one problem is a technical limitation to facilitate player’s latency in world, the other “problem” is people not realizing PvP on a PvP server will never be on their terms.
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I’ve stated numerous times that I play Heartseeker Horde. The smallest group on any PvP server, with some estimates putting us at 15%. There are more Ally alt guilds running MC/Ony than Horde guilds. We will never tag a world boss, or control areas, raid SW. I get to fight off Ally in the Org AH nightly to defend the camped auctioneers.
This is part of playing PvP, it isn’t on your terms. And I wouldn’t limit HS Alliance playability because I chose the wrong server for my preferred playstyle.
Horde and Ally are the same gamers, and when in the majority behave the same way. It’s ironic I need to state this to someone posting on a Horde avatar.
Incidentally, you aren’t “arguing in good faith” being that using your logic you have stake in it.
I truly wonder what motivates you to come to a forum of a game you do not play, just to troll.
Never said do not play, said currently not playing (retail or classic) doesn’t mean I won’t in the future and don’t care about the game. Likely will play eventually here, just been super busy last few months with other things and being on the forums let’s me keep up with the game I enjoy and talk about the game I enjoy.
The end game is for them NOT to accept them, but rather to have them finally decide that taking advantage of the free transfer as groups is a suitable option.
Right now there is NO INCENTIVE for stacked factions to transfer. This would give them a huge one.
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It may cause people to transfer, plenty of people are sitting in the 2-3 hour queue of Faerlina right now. Plenty will stay out of fear of a “dead” server, or having to deal with the otherside of imbalance.
However, the arbitrary queue created wouldn’t be as predictable being that it is artificially generated based upon the amount of the opposing faction logging on.
For instance, there isn’t enough HS Horde to support HS Alliance. Thus they couldn’t raid on schedules. This would cause a new host of problems and complaints.
And people that want to avoid it would simply avoid the queue, as we’ve seen countless times throughout Classic. Thus, those who avoid the queue could make the game actually unplayable (as in, I am in a 5k queue that hasn’t moved for 3 hours, not I was PvPed by a roving Alliance army) for those attempting to log in organically.
The result, players are punished for Blizzard’s mega servers. And those who exploit the queue will continue along, no problem.
Overwhelming odds have always been a part of wPvP, it’s why there are servers where you can PvP on your own terms. The massive population density may exacerbate the imbalance, but people wouldn’t accept vanilla-sized servers either.
Out of curiosity, with this proposal, what happens when peak raid hours end and people log off en masse? Many guilds are raid logging atm, and will log off when finished with their raid nights.
Let’s say you have 200 Horde raiding starting around 7:30, so 200 more Alliance get in. The Alliance raid at 8:30. When the Horde finish their MC/Ony raid at 9:00, 125 of them log off. Are 125 Alliance, mid pull on Garr, booted out of the game? Or would 125 Alliance in queue not be able to log in that night?
It would provide a strong incentive to transfer. You’re in a queue, and you know there are more Horde than Alliance on all the PVP servers combined. Not all the Horde will be able to transfer to other servers, eventually they will fill up and you will be left in a queue if you didn’t transfer. Then you are faced with the choice to either re-roll Alliance, on a PVE server, or endure the queues. They won’t want to be left on the imbalanced server, so they will all want to transfer ASAP. If you consider this sort of game theory, it would actually balance things out very quickly.
No, they would stay in the game . No more alliance would be able to join the game until 125 horde log in.
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That assumes 125 more Horde log in, and that there were enough to begin with.
If there are 300 Horde online and 300 Ally, then the 200 Horde join for 200 more Ally, both are at 500. If no additional Horde log on and the 125 sign out there is 375 Horde online while the 500 Ally are. What happens to the 125 Ally? The point is there aren’t enough minority faction to support the majority, it doesn’t work like a normal queue.
It is possible 125 Horde didn’t sign in, since there are far less on the server. Even assuming some % of the 125 did log in, what happens to the equivalent % of Alliance now not “balanced?”
In reality they would all log in at slightly different times, and would be assigned different spots in the queue. As spots open up they would get in one by one. If 125 people log off at once, 125 spots open up and the next 125 people in line get to log in one by one. Nobody should get booted because other people logged in.
That is how a standardized queue works. 125 in, 125 out.
If there aren’t enough Horde to support the currently online Alliance population due to Horde raid loggers signing off en masse at the end of raid, what happens to the surplus Alliance that were online when there were enough Horde at the peak time to support them?
They would stay logged in, and eventually enough of them would log out to pass whoever was in queue into the game. Remember, that people are logging in and out, on and off for the night, constantly. So even though the queue might stay at 500 people, you will move up in the queue and eventually get in as other people cycle through.
You can only roll 1 faction on pvp servers. The server code is already tracking this. Give me their login code and server queue code and I could implement this in an afternoon and have it out in 1 day. (any programmer who has worked on server systems with millions of lines of code and tens of thousands of users could say the same)
I tried to make a thread about this about 4 days ago and the inevitable pvp server deathsprial it will cause, along with millions in financial losses for blizzard. Apparently the mods didn’t like it as I never saw it appear on the actual forums.