"we feel that the min max meta limits choices."

It’s amazing that such a simple solution is right there, but they aren’t taking it.

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The only way I can think of doing that off the top of my head is to shut off the pipeline of raw data to all addons, websites, etc.

Im not arguing for or against the monumental impact, for better or worse, just suggesting one way it might be done.

Not to me. Picking what’s best for a certain encounter is a meaningful choice. Idk what to tell you.

As in, give us every talent baseline???

You’d think the guy who keeps trying to deflect concern by disingenuously saying “ITs JusT lIkE aN RpG u gais!” would realize that RPGs are notoriously min/maxed.

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So you want the impossible then? As long as there are multiple choices min/maxing will always exist. Even of data is limited players could just test things out for themselves in game and find which is best. There is no way min/maxing will ever stop. Not to mention, plenty of people have fun min/maxing. Who are you to tell them their fun is invalid?

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Not give us every talent but design classes so that we have the tools we need without the busywork of changing things between fights.

Right now talents feel like little more than busywork to me.

If nothing else not being able to respec for individual fights would make players have to actually make a choice about where to focus their character for the raid.

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Remember all those problems we had with the game when we could freely switch talents and glyphs without any stupid grinds? Wasn’t that horrible, having something just work?

That was so much worse than what we have now, totally.

I swear, Ion’s only contribution to WoW is adding speed bumps nobody asked for.

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This is actually an interesting point about the perception of balance and how it is more important than the balance itself. Say 2 specs (lets call them A and B) for a class are decently balanced (lets say spec B is typically about 3% behind spec A in potential output). Knowing that +3% is better than -3%, most of the players trying to push for the highest numbers are going to switch to spec A. This is natural and fine, but now you’ve created a situation where the highest performance players are all in one group which will make the balance look worse than it is. Now typical practical output shifts to something like spec A outperforming spec B by 10-15%.

But here is the kicker:

Now a group leader will have a much more important piece of data than potential damage done. Now the group leader knows that the “good” players play spec A and that someone playing spec B could swap to spec A at any time they like and is choosing not to; this causes them to draw the conclusion that this player is a “bad” player.

I also wasn’t saying Ion’s system is good so I’m not sure what this has to do with my argument.

I’m pretty sure I started this thread by specifically saying that the approach in Shadowlands isn’t good.

Don’t mistake me not agreeing with the people who want free swapping for me agreeing with how Shadowlands will do it.

I wonder now that they are linking RP choices and player power will I now be able to up my dps by roleplaying harder?

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althought i applaud every threads effort to enact change against this sillyness… we cant do much at this point…
they are stubborn… All we can do is wait… and hope… that it dosnt take a whole patch to #PullTheRipCord.

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I could make dinner without a recipe and hope it comes out ok, or use a recipe and be sure I get something good. Nothing mindless about it, it’s just planning for your ideal result

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If my roleplay choices now effect my overall dps.

Could my dps now please increase the harder I roleplay that char? I swear I’ll type in ye old English and transmog properly in only sparkly things to please my new Fae overloards! I shall slay all other evil covenants! (scowels…your all traitors to my Fae masters!! I shall give you all wedgie’s!)

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Min maxing is fine. If anything, I don’t see how this system will fix that so called issue. I see groups with 4 people denying invites to tol dagor because they want a rogue. That’s a very static choice and it doesn’t stop people from discriminating.
Blizzard just needs to actively balance specs.

He took over from more competent and talented people and said “all that stuff they did, I’ll do better.”

Now we see how well that has worked out.

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Are you going to roll a tank because I’m stuck in PvP?

Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy and meaningful inside that you told me to make a bad decision, thinking I’m stupid enough to take advice from some random anonymous stranger in the forums?

That is true.

I know some people haven’t changed their talents for 2 expansions now. No improvement to dead talents and no more talent tiers. It feels like they have given up on core progression and focusing all in on borrowed power. I think that is a mighty big gamble IMVHO with how BFA turned out. :+1:

Why should I be required to become a theorycrafter and test all these things myself when the work has already been done? If you love multidimensional spreadsheets, go for it. But telling me I’m playing the game wrong for not spending endless hours creating my own metas is ridiculous. Or do you just want me to be really, really bad?

Why is it you think that casuals are totally brainless and can’t think for themselves?

Huh, (I don’t think I got your jest). I was advocating for RP and player power to no longer be linked with one another.

I wanted each covenant to get all four class skills under them. And to let the player choose the skill they like with the covenant they like.

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I’m as casual as they come, take a look at my armory lol.

Nobody should have to theorycraft if they don’t want, but there is such a thing as diminishing returns, which means that people not doing top end cutting edge content gain practically no benefit from copying cutting edge players down to a tee. It’s like someone who just wants to jog every morning without feeling winded optimizing for a cross-country marathon — they’re free to do so, but there’s little benefit to it and they may even be hurting themselves since they’re optimizing for the wrong thing.